I have enjoyed reading his long posts on this thread, he writes really well and in an engaging way

Thank you, Rick.

I've been told I'm a very good writer both times I penned suicide notes (don't worry, this was years ago, and I realized that if I had a problem with the world it makes far more sense to eliminate it, not me). Must mean something when someone reads something like that and their first response is to tell me that, if I wrote a book, they would buy it. Then again, maybe they were just being nice because I was suicidal at the time. Or maybe I'd tricked them into it through my expert sociopathic social engineering skills that abusers and their enablers seem to always find in me.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 20:14:26

knyte i always knew you are the criminal mastermind drug kingpin and that you're playing us all like a fiddle

here is your real identity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHKrCs1rFRI

Edited 10/14/2021 20:21:21

@l4v.r0v

I just love the hole you are digging to yourself!

1. inviting players to a game called "nonolet victim restitution fund" is a clear manipulation. No one is actually a victim, and pretending to know exactly how many coins each player could have "lost" is another clear manipulation.
2. you have facts, but you chose not to present them all. Like for example forgetting to make clear that winning a lottery with your alt can't really benifit your main account on idle. By ommitting some of the facts you are creating a strong opinion that supports your point of view.
3. love it how you stand for free speech and American liberalism, but chose to nickname yourself after a russian minister of foreign affairs, a well-known liberal! By the way, public shaming was used on daily basis in the Soviet Union. A country known for its freedom of speech.
4. Freedom of speech is of a great value, but so do other human rights. Offending one right in favour of an other is not a good case for a good society.
5. "prosperous"- laughing out loud. Define prosperous! I don't have the time to discuss with you the differences between the american and european penal systems. But 650 incarcerated per 100,000 us citizens in compare to only 110 europeans is some prosperity!

l4v.r0v, I'm done arguing with you. I tried to make a point about being careful with public trials, and that when you unleash the public-shaming force you can't control it any longer, thus potentially inflicting more damage than the original deed.
You want to be defensive about it? it's your right.
You aren't a little bit concerned about the amount of hatred your post started among the players? I wish you'll never find yourself on the other side, because it just sucks

No one is actually a victim, and pretending to know exactly how many coins each player could have "lost" is another clear manipulation.

For each raffle you enter, there's a reward. Let's say 6 coins. Which means you have an expected value (or expected reward) since raffles are fair and random: if 5 players join, you all have 1.2 expected coins each from joining the raffle. If one player joins twice, they gain an additional 0.8 expected coins at the cost of 0.2 expected coins to the other 4 entrants.

This allows us to model the (expected) impact of double-joins on raffle, and this is what I did. It's clearly not a perfect model. Like you seem to understand, raffles' outcomes don't converge with their expected values until there's a lot of raffles; nonolet/#Uno/unoturbo/JennyA, for example, won significantly more than his expected coins, so from that perspective my restitution calculations are conservative estimates. A more conservative estimate could be reached by looking at just JennyA's winnings, but that'd actually be an overestimate because JennyA joining a raffle decreases nonolet's expected rewards on his main.

If you've got a better idea on how to model this, I'm all ears. However, I can't think of anything else that doesn't require reverse-engineering the RaffleBot random number generator and simulating a few hundred raffles to see what the actual outcomes would have been in the alternate universe where nonolet continued to play fair.

Like for example forgetting to make clear that winning a lottery with your alt can't really benifit your main account on idle

This is an analysis. I cannot possibly precompute and provide all possible observations from the data I share. I believe this observation, however, was amply clear from the presentation itself (which shows the impact on nonolet's and JennyA's expected winnings from double-raffling), and as you know I have never denied or attempted to bury this analysis.

but chose to nickname yourself after a russian minister of foreign affairs

This is an incredible stretch. In no way have I endorsed or do I endorse Sergey Lavrov, nor was he the direct inspiration for my username.

By the way, public shaming was used on daily basis in the Soviet Union. A country known for its freedom of speech.

And Stalin wore pants every day of his life. I'm wearing pants now. Could this be mere coincidence?

But 650 incarcerated per 100,000 us citizens in compare to only 110 europeans is some prosperity!

Yes, the consequences of a justice system that relaxed its accountability and transparency, mainly during the War on Drugs, "tough on crime", and War on Terror eras. The main force driving us in the other direction? Transparency and criticism of public officials and law enforcement, rather than deferring to their authority.

I'm done arguing with you.

Thank you. I appreciate you finding something better to do with your time than insulting a stranger for exposing your online friend's cheating.

Like awaythro put it, nothing quite says remorse like taking pot-shots at the person who found you out.

You aren't a little bit concerned about the amount of hatred your post started among the players? I wish you'll never find yourself on the other side, because it just sucks

No, because the vast majority of hatred and insults arising from my actions have been from players like you, nonolet, and Ursus taking every opportunity to ridicule or attack my character without any serious attempt at substantiation, respect, or responsiveness. Unlike the stuff on nonolet, what Ursus randomly said about me- ridiculing my verbosity- is stuff that even sticks, within this morally compromised community, and certainly doesn't get held to the same standard of "respectful language" as I would if I stooped to your level when highlighting nonolet's incompetence at cheating. If you're not going to be concerned about the random lies you attack me with, for which you face far less accountability than I do, surely I don't need to be even as cautious as I am when spreading largely verifiable truths.

The incentives work out really well here. My only viable path is transparency. Unlike the authority you appeal to, I can't just delete posts, lock threads, search players' past chat and forum logs for discrediting quotes. My only weapon is spreading the truth. Even when I share well-substantiated and objectively true information, people like you are there to take me to task for it! So if I lie, I shoot myself in the foot. When your authority lies, people presume he's telling the truth (because they can't check the record themselves); when it comes out later he was lying, it's easy enough to minimize when you control the platform and can apply selective moderation, threatening messages, and other tools to generate chilling effects against those who hold you accountable. Do you know why common law societies developed public trials as standard procedure for handling accusations? It's because doing this stuff in public creates the exact right incentives and gives reason- not arbitrary rule, not corruption, not social capital- the chance to have a little bit of an effect. The public forum is foundational to any serious pursuit of justice.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 21:17:11

ha, l4v.r0v against fizzer, TSFH and world. supported by Rick Sanchez/Loxiiv (now i am sure they are one person). and fabulous KG. a murder of ravens. congratulations! have a nice day!

Edited 10/14/2021 21:19:05

ha, l4v.r0v against fizzer, TSFH and world

One of those is already dismanted. One of them is under active investigation by multiple US law enforcement agencies. The third, I'm still working on.

Rick Sanchez/Loxiiv (now i am sure they are one person). and fabulous KG. a murder of ravens.

Nothing quite says "apology" and "let's not have witch hunts" like flinging unsubstantiated character attacks at those who found out your cheating (and bringing in uninvolved parties like Loxiiv and KG).

nonolet, when are you going to follow through on your token gesture to restitute those who lost coins to your cheating? You owe at least 148 coins to 141 unique accounts; here's the list- you don't need to wait for them to ask, unless you're trying to save your cheat coins: https://bit.ly/nonolet-victims

Of course, you probably disagree with the accounting there. You could go by actual damages: JennyA won at least 222 coins during your double-raffles, and another 1130 coins' worth of non-coin rewards. Of course, you probably disagree with that too, because you'd rather keep those gains and not part with that many coins. Do you have an alternative model in mind?

I doubt you do, because the plan was clearly to just make the offer and never seriously follow through on it. A token gesture for a token apology, in which you can bury character attacks against those who caught you.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 22:23:23

haha l4v.r0v dont need your list, nor your "suggestions". i have a pretty good idea what i am going to do to redistribute the coyns. it will be a good event. fun for all but you and your ilk. :-)

i have a pretty good idea what i am going to do to redistribute the coyns. it will be a good event. fun for all but you and your ilk. :-)

Good, looking forward to the free-to-join 1071-coin reward tournament. Well, it'll be a little more than that, since you kept on raffling all the way through at least yesterday, and my own accounting only goes through 09/25. You can ask JK for the full logs.

By the way, you owe me personally 3.27 coins, so you can take that off the coin prize for the tourney and create a 4-coin reward free-to-join game. Thanks. I'm glad to see you finally taking action after you get publicly called out. Noticing a pattern.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 21:44:05

ha, l4v.r0v against fizzer, TSFH and world
One of those is already dismanted. One of them is under active investigation but multiple US law enforcement agencies. The third, I'm still working on.

Needless to say Knyte had nothing to do with either of these transpiring.

Also, Inxs - I did not take their coins so do not feel like you owe them any coins for my sake.

What i find the most humorous myself is those of us that play in the most raffles, care the least and visa versa.... if you barely participate in the raffles to begin with what are you so upset about?

i don't owe you squat, l4v.r0v :-)

don't expect any coyns from me. and there are no "victims" any more. there you go, "self-righteous avenger of the disinherited". or rather "bye bye bully".

PS: my event will not be a tournament. :-)
news to come. soon enough. mystify! stay tuned.

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, there you have it!
How double standarts ruin one's reputation!

"My only viable path is transparency"
"I never talk behind the backs of people. neither good, nor bad"
"hatred and insults are coming from you"

after all that you spent hald an hour slandering everyone in ex-TSFH in global chat.
I'm afraid, I need to refresh your memory: you also were a member of TSFH.
Now you need to decide: whether I "defend" one member of my ex-group and "attack" another ex-member, or would you maybe notice, that I'm a member of Discovery for several weeks already.
But that's how you gain public opinion on your side: by presenting the facts partially.

Name one insult that you heard from me. I was trying to open your eyes on the problematics of public-shaming. I wasn't attacking you, but strongly opposing your methods. You chose to present it as a personal attack.
And that's how you gain public opinion on your side: presenting yourself as a victim.

P.S. about Stalin's pants:
we were discussing public shame as a part of a penal system. I made a direct connection to the USSR where it was used.
Your mentioning of Stalin's pants correlate fantastically with you complaints about being ridiculed.
But that's how you gain public opinion on your side: double standarts!

On 08/30/2021 at 09:12:56 AM, you joined a 5-coin Free Cache raffle with nonolet and unoturbo; I was 1 of the other 10 entrants.
On 08/30/2021 at 12:25:57 PM, you joined a 5-coin Supercharge Army Camp power with nonolet and unoturbo; I was 1 of the other 8 entrants.
On 08/30/2021 at 10:26:01 PM, you joined a 58-coin Time Warp raffle with nonolet and unoturbo. I was 1 of the other 12 entrants.
On 09/01/2021 at 10:10:14 AM, you joined a 4-coin Time Warp raffle with nonolet and unoturbo. I was 1 of the other 9 entrants.
On 09/17/2021 at 10:20:31 AM, you joined a 5-coin raffle with #Uno and nonolet. I was 1 of the other 8 entrants.
On 09/18/2021 at 09:11:42 AM, you joined a 62-coin raffle with #Uno and nonolet. I was 1 of the other 10 entrants.
On 09/22/2021 at 12:47:16 PM, you joined a 5-coin Supercharge Mine raffle with #Uno and nonolet. I was 1 of the other 10 entrants. You won this raffle on nonolet, netting a value of 30 coins (20 from the power).

By the expected value method, you cost me ~4 coins. If we instead divide your double-raffle winnings by the number of other players, we get 3 coins. I'm being generous and rounding down. This is how much you owe me, one of at least 141 players affected by your raffle cheating.

Thank you in advance for the repayment.

after all that you spent hald an hour slandering everyone in ex-TSFH in global chat.

1) If it's in print, it's libel, not slander
2) Slander/libel/defamation generally require you to make untrue purportedly factual statements or similar statements with a reckless disregard for the truth. My 'slander' against TSFH was a structural analysis of how online social spaces create incentives for compromising one's ethics. Unfavorable analyses, especially ones grounded in fact, do not constitute slander (except maybe in India- I think you'll really like their laws).
3) Truth is (generally) an absolute defense against claims of defamation. The factual statements I did make are not only true but verifiably so: you, nonolet, and Ursus are using this forum post as an opportunity to make (poorly-reasoned) attacks on my character, while anyone with access to TSFH chat logs can confirm that at least some subset of TSFH has made character attacks on me behind my back.
4) global chat is a public space; if I were speaking about you behind your back, you would not have immediately seen it
5) I was not attacking ex-TSFH members. I think you misread my statements, which seems to be another pattern here.

But that's how you gain public opinion on your side: by presenting the facts partially.

Last I checked, I'm being thorough to the point of people noticing how long my posts get as a result.

Name one insult that you heard from me

Sure, just search this forum thread for posts by Parsifal. In the span of a few short posts, you've accused me of manipulation, deception, and some conspiracy to social engineer public opinion in my favor (clearly not my forte), all fantastical attacks on my character without any serious attempt at corroboration. You've further insulted me by your poor grasp of the facts and misunderstanding of basic logical fallacies like playing the Soviet card (which you don't even seem to have noticed has no connection with your argument; the Soviets regularly used many things, like factories and electricity- their incidental usage doesn't make those things bad). Per the point about Soviet justice, surely you must realize that the zero-transparency system you advocate for- one where we trust authorities and don't challenge- is directly connected to the witch hunts you're so concerned about. The public phase of the Great Terror, for example, stammed from a Stalin-backed conspiracy about the Moscow Center collaborating with fascists (in response to the Kirov assassination). The casual chain here traces back to an authority shielded from public scrutiny- through norms like the ones you seek to promote- which led to a perversion of the Soviet justice system. If only the Soviet justice system had people with the ability to publicly share evidence and make well-reasoned arguments instead of deferring to authorities and unaccountable "official" processes! Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, could have escaped arbitrary rule, executions, and starvation. Instead, people who were compiling and presenting facts about crimes by the authorities and failures of the Soviet system had to work in the shadows and publish underground manuscripts (like Medvedev's classic Let History Judge).

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 22:15:50

Get Knyted!

well l4v.r0v sorry to inform you, but rafflebot has chosen differently. no coins for you, no no.

but ... maybe you'll be granted a chance at my upcoming indemnification event.

nonolet, if I thought there was even a chance you were going to respond differently, I wouldn't have asked. Just wanted to make obvious the sincerity of your offer of restitution. Before you accuse me of manipulation, I even outright said as much when making the request. Kudos to you for staying on script!:

Of course, you probably disagree with the accounting there. You could go by actual damages: JennyA won at least 222 coins during your double-raffles, and another 1130 coins' worth of non-coin rewards. Of course, you probably disagree with that too, because you'd rather keep those gains and not part with that many coins. Do you have an alternative model in mind?

I doubt you do, because the plan was clearly to just make the offer and never seriously follow through on it. A token gesture for a token apology, in which you can bury character attacks against those who caught you.

The only part I missed was the "maybe you'll get a chance," so nice creative flair to break up the monotony of such predictable entertainment.

Ceterum censeo: Anti-Fizzer is pro-Warlight. Pro-Warlight is anti-Fizzer.

Edited 10/14/2021 22:18:52

I got a feeling this discussion is not about the raffle anymore


This topic is about winning online argument and proving who is right xD



knyte, my advice: You don't have to explain yourself. xd What's the point? This thing can go on forever

I got a feeling this discussion is not about the raffle anymore

It was never about the raffle. The worst-case plausible accounting of damages, with some generous margins of error, from nonolet's double-joining is about $20-25. If I wanted to argue over $25 (of which my share is 4 cents), I could go to the local city council budget meeting.

What's the point? This thing can go on forever

And then I can make graphs about it!

Edited 10/14/2021 23:33:26

I do not know why, but this feels like more of a comparison of ideals than a argument of who is right and wrong.

Knyte wins, move on. :D