I'd disagree that using cards generates luck. As long as everyone gets the same set of cards, then using cards at the right moment is just another skill.

Cards can be changed %-wise and say there are 12 cards but players draw 13 or 14 cards, then there's a luck factor. I don't like luck based attacks is what i meant. I think sometimes you could host Tournaments too on these templates, rolling the league with FFA Tournaments as well every now and then so people can try their skill in France Big 5FFA for example.

Give 4 starts Auto Distribution so it's not so much a skill to choose picks but make the Map Template like Strategic 1 v 1 with

4 on territories not in the distribution. Keeps the game skill but it doesn't take skill to pick brilliant starts.

You can easily make large FFA Tournaments though and its not always about chance but about skill and how to manipulate the game ti your favor with blasted Private MSGS.

PM ruins the strategy because you've got to USE your income to vest suit YOUR position. You may see a stronger player and

I agree that if cards are luck based then that's a problem. that's why I said as long as everyone gets the same cards.

think that it's stupid not to focus on him to increase your own chances then my mutual feeling your opponent is thinking the exact same thing to keep balance. You don't have to Talk to each other. You are enemies and sometimes to suit ones own personal gain they by chance focus on the most threatening player leaving no one to cheat and create real pacts. That is unfair. If you have a concern i recommend playing without fog or using recon cards.

The point was France looks like a star so 5FFA Five points of control at times it can be a really close game 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Hexagon War (U-Hex-A if you want to talk hexagon maps) is a good make to use the Map Creator's Distribution option on or large FFAs of that type don't get me wrong. Like was aforementioned with 12 bases but auto distribution should be left up when we're given 3 starts on a template like Huge Germany. Leave it up to skill to collect bonuses from there is all I'm saying. Picking is another skill entirely and can leave devastating effects.

Edited 5/3/2021 09:28:10

I'd disagree that using cards generates luck. As long as everyone gets the same set of cards, then using cards at the right moment is just another skill.
By same logic Multi-Attack games are pure skill.
Some cards force you to guess what will opponent do. Sometimes it is OK (blockades), sometimes it feels random (e-block, airlift to front).

@καλλιστηι

I see your point, and I do agree with you. But if we leave out all those cards you will just create the same games but on different maps. Imo these cards must existed out of a lot of parts, to ensure you can't just airlift your armies from one front to another. @elbee makes a good point that the cards will be strategic as long as every player gets the same set, and I think this will always be the case in this league.

@joeydavis761

auto distribution is a setting we'll test out for sure. It comes with some luck, but picking in a 40 FFA game on a relative small map will mostly give the same outcome as auto distribution since the chances of getting your 4 first picks are really small. You make a good point that players should have the skill to make use of the starts given to them. Imo templates with up to 10 players should have manual distribution, and templates from 10 to 40 players can use the auto distribution setting. But like I said, we'll test this out before implementing it in the rules.
tournaments can be a part of the league for sure, but don't have to. We can always host tourneys just for fun, they don't have to count towards the league so everyone can join and experience the rules for themselves.

@everyone

I might make rules for template making, seperating settings like luck factor and move order from the more important rules. This way the rules for template making can be really specific without removing the focus of the main rules. This is still a work in progress and things are still changing to provide the best experience to all the players. At the end of the week I will give another update on all of this

Just please don't use Emergency Blockades and be sparing with the Airlifts.

I've seen too many games with too many EB and Airlift cards. The worst are games are those with lots of EBs that have high rates like 500% . . . makes it far too easy to punish attackers, and far too easy to defend your territory, so you can too easily recover from mistakes. Bad decisions and mistakes should have consequences.

Late Airlifts helps with the issue but that is a mod so not applicable to most games.

Too many priority/delay cards is similar. Part of the game is ascertaining what the move order is, but if you have 10+ people using cards all the time, misinformation muddies the water.

It does reduce the strategy, or at least muddies it up. Yes, it's fair b/c everyone has the same cards, but it changes the game dynamics. A game can be fair while still reducing the amount of strategy involved. Think of Crazy 8's or checkers vs chess or Go. All these games have strategies, but I don't think anyone will argue that Crazy 8's or checkers has deeper strategy than chess or Go. Too many cards tends to make a game more like Crazy 8's than chess.

@krinid

I totally agree with you, but I don't want to ban those cards completely from this league. I'll put some restrictions on those settings in the template rules, ex. Max EB value is 200%.
I'll go by every setting in the template rules, giving restrictions like no LD on a map with more than 1000 territories. This way the allowed values for the settings will be very clear and will be changable if needed.

Mods will not be used in this league, mostly cos I don't have membership myself xD. But still, a member must use his weekly non-membership mod game away to use any mod, and if we get more players there will be more games to be hosted.

In the end, every season will have a new template. Everyone participating in the league will be able to vote for a new template, this way we can avoid templates with any stupid, skill reducing settings (if they even get through).

second open game:
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26785908

Edited 5/4/2021 10:39:58

I started a private tournament to get more attention from players, if you didn't get an invite and want one, just say it
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=42601

for new players willing to join the league, please fill in this form:
https://forms.gle/RQDQGKwYPgaLATGD8

Edited 5/4/2021 12:31:37

Good news!

So far I've had 36 submissions and I started working on a scoring system which I'll share later this day. This first game won't count for the points due to several reasons, one of them cos the template I'm using wasn't really made for this much players xD.

I've been advertising this league to get more players and it seems to be working. It seems like a lot of players don't read the forums cos for most of them this is completely new to them. If you create a game or do something else where you can reach many players at once, don't hesitate to leave this thread's link. For now every player is welcome, but there'll be some requirements soon!

This league now has an official name:
The Dutchman campaign, a FFA league
Almost all players wanted a name with either Dutchman or FFA league, with a bit more votes towards the Dutchman one. But to make it a bit more clear the name has an undertitle explaining what this league actually is.

At the end of the week I'll have a google document with all the rules and template settings ready, this will require some feedback on it to make sure everything is correct and if you guys even agree to them :-)

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/jdmue4gm7r
Here's the formula I want to go for, but I would like to get some feedback on it. I'm sure there's some room for improvement and optimalisation. Or you can just play with it :).

- C = the total amount of players that participated in the game
- B = the placement of the player

I'm now in the process of creating a google sheet to help calculate both the scores and standings automatically, but I'll need a scoring system to finish this part

how will no alliances work? if there is no spoken agreement you'll always have an unspoken agreement, of two players keeping their borders very low and not attacking cause they know attacking will be the end of the peace. I think the best way to go about it is just to accept that there will be naps no matter what. refusing to maintain the unspoken peace will result in a clear strategical disadvantage, as you want to fight as little people as possible simultaneously. the best FFA player and the best diplo player is probably the same person

I looked at the Desmos link. I noticed that below a certain placing you would get negative points. I assume that would not actually happen. Also given that it is so hard to win, it feels like there should be a bonus number of points for a winner. I'm also in favour of simplicity so it's easy for people to understand how many points they would get. so perhaps just have points awarded to the top half with 1 point extra as you move up with a bonus of some percentage of the number of players to the winner.

@loxiiv

if there is no spoken agreement you'll always have an unspoken agreement, of two players keeping their borders very low and not attacking cause they know attacking will be the end of the peace.

As long as there's no communication between the players it's fine. When there's no agreement between the players there will always be that fear of your opponent attacking you, trusting a player to much can result in a quick wipeout. alliances / NAP's mostly result in a coordinated attack by deploying behind the border for a few turns, giving the opponent '1 free turn' to prepare while you move your troops to the border. This isn't fair towards your opponent since you've had more time to prepare. Of course this can still be the case in the games that will be played in this league but since there's no agreement no one is playing it unfair, everyone is still your enemy and has to be eliminated before you can win.

Regarding scoring..since you want people to stayin the game to the end, should there be negative scores for surrendering or getting booted?
Something simple like a flat -10 for getting booted and -5 for surrendering.

Very good idea, I also demand getting booted (-20) points

@elbee

It's indeed a question if we want to get negative scores if we do badly and get eliminated quickly, or if we want to get only negative scores when surrendering or get booted. I do agree with zazzle and sevban about getting negative scores when booted or surrendered, this will hopefully make sure most players will play till the end