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Active artifacts: 4/26/2021 09:45:42


JK_3 
Level 63
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@Fafzor: you cannot equip multiple artifacts of the same thing, so you also cannot activate multiple of them at once.

@krinid: using multiple DT on the same terr is a no go, since you only reach the massive terr when you are already so far into the game that you simply don't have time to wait out the 16h downtown a bunch of times.

i would argue it would be more effective to use artifacts to save some armies on the way there, so you still have a couple full merc camps when arriving.
Active artifacts: 4/26/2021 10:20:21


krinid 
Level 62
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@Fafzor
As JK said can't be done ... but I'm curious of what you had in mind? I can't think of any case where 3 Time Warps would be considered game breaking. Assuming you have three Insane Time Warps, that would be 24h of time advancement every 16h ... which is pretty good, especially if you cycle through actions before activating each ... but still don't think it's game breaking, b/c while you'd zooming ahead quite a bit, you'd be doing without any other artifact benefits.

@JK
Sounds like we play very differently ... I tend to scope out various areas of the map and have all the army camps, hospitals, merc camps, mines, markets, smelters & crafters identified if not captured around 50-60% completion. In the process of doing this, I typically stumble across the big bad territories. I did this on Europe Huge, found the big 403B territory, and based on Fizzer's recommendation thought I'd give it a shot at whittling it down which multiple attacks. I got it down to 333B after 3 hits, then decided that the 70B units weren't worth the 48h cooldown, and beyond that the returns diminish, so gave up. Instead just going to go with a Quad Strike (Rare 48%), savings 204B units in one swoop (including hospital & JS benefits), so actual cost to capture will be 129B.
Active artifacts: 4/26/2021 13:39:58

Fafzor 
Level 21
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@krinid I thought the time skip would cooldown the other artifacts as well so you could just cycle them infinitely without delay. But I forgot you can't even equip them together as you guys pointed out.
Active artifacts: 4/26/2021 13:45:01


Z 
Level 63
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Time Skip would have potential to help abuse other Actives.

Does anyone know what the Free Cache formula is? Using an artifact in WZIB lets me suspect that a 100% Cache provides 10hrs of production, but this is off of a very small sample size.

If that is the case, combining it with Supercharge Army Camp can provide a very profitable boost at high rarities.
Active artifacts: 4/26/2021 14:12:42


krinid 
Level 62
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@Fafzor
OHHHH I see what you mean now. In that context, that would indeed be game breaking if it could be used to cyclically reduce it's own cooldown in addition to other Actives!

@Z
We know "Total Army Income UP->Free Cache Armies UP" and thus SAC increases the count, but don't know the formula, and not sure if anyone has any supporting math or evidence to be more specific than that.

I've seen some evidence to suspect that total Ore/sec affects resources provided in a FC, and obviously also MR but that is better understand to be related to a 24h production period specific to the items in the targeted market. There is likely some kind of value formula that assesses how much total value you are capable of producing, and that is an input into the FC resource value. What I have seen is starting off with meagre items like iron, nickel and lead bars, and later on in the level proceeding to better stuff - quantities of twine seems to be the most common, then welding rods when the overall value increases, and when I've really upgraded my ore and put some SMs on them as well, I've seen lanthanum bars, and I think I saw a few instances with 2+ bars of other bars like thorium, but have not been able to identify how it decides whether to give 2 thorium vs 1 neodymium vs 5 welding rods vs 10 twine, etc.
Active artifacts: 4/26/2021 23:38:08


TBest 
Level 60
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I never quite understood why all the active artifacts all have the same cooldown. If you open up for changing the cooldown, then things get more interesting and there is one more parameter to tweak the balance.
Active artifacts: 4/27/2021 00:27:26

Phoenix
Level 25
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I never quite understood why all the active artifacts all have the same cooldown. If you open up for changing the cooldown, then things get more interesting and there is one more parameter to tweak the balance.

That doesn't necessarily solve the problem, though. Sure, this can help with artifacts that exceed a limit that they technically can't (like the Quadruple Strike or (potentially) the Discount artifacts). If the problematic artifact exceeds its limit, scale down the effect and also scale down the cool-down. But this approach makes them more and more like a passive artifact. At some point, it wouldn't really be an active artifact anymore. And we already have more passive ones than actives. To be clear, I wouldn't mind if some of the actives that don't have a passive counterpart yet would become more passive-like because I still prefer the passive ones at this point. But Fizzer definitely wants active artifacts in their current form (or at least similar to that) so he won't probably make actives more passive.

And having one global cool-down value for all artifacts makes it easier to judge their value for each player. Imagine you also had to factor in their cool-down in your pros and cons.
Active artifacts: 4/27/2021 16:36:33


asdfgh
Level 24
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Side question:
Can you sacrifice an Active Artifact that's on cool down? This would be very useful and slightly broken.
Active artifacts: 4/27/2021 16:40:59


Z 
Level 63
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You can only sacrifice artifacts that you do not have equipped, so no.

But does upgrading an active artifact that is on cooldown cancel the cooldown?
Active artifacts: 4/27/2021 16:46:51


Splat 
Level 64
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No, the upgrade timer overlaps the cooldown timer, meaning you can upgrade an active artifact on a cooldown for no extra time. The cooldown timer still counts down, but you do not need to wait for it to finish before the upgrade timer starts.

Edited 4/27/2021 16:48:18
Active artifacts: 4/27/2021 17:42:15


krinid 
Level 62
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I never quite understood why all the active artifacts all have the same cooldown. If you open up for changing the cooldown, then things get more interesting and there is one more parameter to tweak the balance.

Agree ... I recommended that the cooldowns change as the level rise up, making Epic truly Epic, Legendary truly Legendary, then some of them may not even need to 2x each step up if the cooldown is adjusted as well.

That doesn't necessarily solve the problem, though. Sure, this can help with artifacts that exceed a limit that they technically can't (like the Quadruple Strike or (potentially) the Discount artifacts). If the problematic artifact exceeds its limit, scale down the effect and also scale down the cool-down. But this approach makes them more and more like a passive artifact. At some point, it wouldn't really be an active artifact anymore. And we already have more passive ones than actives. To be clear, I wouldn't mind if some of the actives that don't have a passive counterpart yet would become more passive-like because I still prefer the passive ones at this point.

Not really - no one is saying to make the cooldown 15 mins. I think it has potential to minimally help with problem. Perhaps it won't "solve" the problem, b/c I think the "problem" is viewed differently by players & Fizzer. We see that Actives aren't useful, and he sees that Actives aren't overpowered, and we're both right, and the "solution" is somewhere in the middle where they be both useful & yet not overpowered.

But Fizzer definitely wants active artifacts in their current form (or at least similar to that) so he won't probably make actives more passive.

Not necessarily. He's outright asked the community for ideas on this, so he just needs to hear the right idea that strikes the right balance. I've found that he won't just implement a suggestion b/c many people think it's a good idea, you have to convince him, and it has to be beneficial enough to warrant spending time on. There are many "good ideas" that are on his list but he's just 1 guy with limited time, so he will pick the ones that give the biggest benefit and/or the ones he feels strongest above. But once you've convinced him it is a good idea, he's actually pretty open to implementing those ideas. We've seen that a number of times. His specific question to the community was regarding Swapping, but definitely included use of Actives, their power levels & cooldowns. He directly stated that he's looking (and asking us) for good ideas on this. We gave him lots of ideas, but never got any final word of what he took away from it, if he saw any 'good ideas' in the bunch, but he did then buff Actives and left everything else the same, so not sure if he didn't find anything worth implementing, if he has something else in store, or maybe you're right and he really likes 16h cooldowns.

And having one global cool-down value for all artifacts makes it easier to judge their value for each player. Imagine you also had to factor in their cool-down in your pros and cons.

Np by me to factor in varying cooldown times. I already have to factor in various %'s, cost to acquire, quantity, etc. And still simpler for example than recipes, figuring out if crafting X is more beneficial than selling its ingredients A,B,C, etc, while considering smelting times/crafting times/varied ingredient requirements, etc, and factoring in Techs, time to completion, etc. Cooldowns really has no basis for being even across the board, other than that it is a "long period" that means you really have to make the invocation value worth it - and that's the problem and has always been the problem, many just simply still aren't worth 16 hours. The game simply has complex math, and varying the cooldown times doesn't increase it by much.
Active artifacts: 4/27/2021 21:23:33

Phoenix
Level 25
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Agree ... I recommended that the cooldowns change as the level rise up, making Epic truly Epic, Legendary truly Legendary, then some of them may not even need to 2x each step up if the cooldown is adjusted as well.

Okay, so if the idea is that every artifact of rarity x has cool-down y hours, this could work fine. When I read it, I imagined that Damage Territory has 16h, Discount Mine has a cool-down of 14h, Money Cache has 18h, etc and one artifact might increase in cool-down, others would decrease... THAT would really be a mess. If the cool-down decreases (slightly) with each upgrade (and the same for every artifact), this would sound appealing.
Active artifacts: 4/29/2021 17:23:56

Juan
Level 64
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i think its pretty obvious but... what happens with active artifacts if u use multilevel?
Active artifacts: 4/29/2021 17:24:44


Z 
Level 63
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Locked in place for cooldown

Can only be used 1 level at a time
Active artifacts: 4/29/2021 22:08:45


krinid 
Level 62
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@Juan
As Z said. See this thread for further discussion:
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/544013-active-artifacts?Offset=0
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