> Maybe you play only a few templates where you're really good in those by often playing these.

I win over 80% at most QM templates. Close to half of my QM losses are actually me booting at picks because it doesn't give me a game immediately and I never realize the game started till I've booted.

What I'm really good at is math, and problem solving. My degrees are in computer science and pure mathematics. Those skills apply to warzone well as a whole. It takes me time to learn to play a template well, for sure. But if you and I both play a template 10 times, I can guarantee I will be substantially better than you on it afterwards.

> Also I think a lot of you would actually get along but have just gotten off on the wrong foot due to misunderstandings.

Probably. I don't have anything against Sanmu even now. He's the one that's been making it personal.

I didn't call him a bad player, I didn't say anything negative about him personally, other than he was unimportant in my eyes and wasn't someone I sought to prove anything to. That's true for well over 99% of the playerbase.

I'm better than most people, anyone that says otherwise is a uneducated or is trolling and feigning ignorance. I'm worse than a lot of people too, but they're still a small minority in the grand scheme. Trying to prove I'm better than specific people as some form of dick measuring contest honestly doesn't interest me. For me to bother to do such a thing, there has to be something in it for me. Sanmu claims I requested coin wagers because I knew he couldn't afford them - this makes no sense. I don't know him, I have no clue what he can and can't afford. My assumption is that most people on this game who aren't children CAN afford $60. I certainly expect most people calling me an "angry child" can.

These posts, were him:

"I'm not sure I can explain the value of emotion to someone who doesn't understand it.

Perhaps I can try. I'll give an analogy you'll understand. You know that sinking feeling of despair you feel after losing a game of warzone? Perhaps after losing a ladder, year after year, despite all your best efforts? That's the feeling other people have when communicating with you.

When people are this sad/mad, they do crazy things. Hell, they might even challenge people who rightfully beat them and say they didn't deserve it. And then back out when the other person responds to the challenge. And actually listening to the other person's arguments? Hell, that's not even on their mind at all.

I tried to cater my analogy to your own personal experience; I hope that helps.

As a side note, I thought I'd mention something. Since you obviously understand warzone a lot better than human emotions (or even the concept of human emotions), I'll be playing in the first timeslot of Clan Wars everyday in S3 for the M'Hunters. I'll play any of the Small Earth templates. If you wanna match up, join then. I'd love to hear you rage more first hand."

The entire post reads as a personal attack. It's not arguing against things I said, it's pure ad-hominem.

It's also FAR more condescending than my post that critiqued someone's gameplay. I didn't attack people personally, still haven't in fact.

He however has continued to do so consistently, post after post:

"You ain't a celebrity bro. You're just an angry child. An angry child who is about to lose a season in Clan Wars :)"

Didn't claim to be a "celebrity", it's a strawman attack. Calling me an angry child while almost certainly being younger than me (picture looks younger at least) is ridiculous. He knows nothing about me, yet instantly resorts to petty personal insults. "Not a good look." to use his own words against him.

"If you want to actually back up your bullshit, you can join Strat 1v1, or either of the voted templates that the community will add to the pool, instead of small earth the template your whole clan seems to play in a sad attempt to avoid playing competent players. That or you can keep dodging like the rest of your clan so that you can keep getting matched vs noobs in an effort to win; it'll make it sweeter when you still lose despite the cheap tactics that way.
"

That was me. Is it harsh? Maybe, but it's also true. MH is intentionally avoiding the templates we play to avoid matching vs us. Some of the members might really like small earth, but when 8 join, and they all join small earth auto dist rather than strat 1v1, that's pretty telling.

Auto Dist Small Earth is about as luck-based as a template can get. It's not even SE1W, which is much more skill-based. The reason you join it, is because you expect to win under 50% at other things and want to bring your winrate closer to 50%.

MH only needs to win about 50%, because they play more games per day than we do.

MH is 58-50 this season, Master is 49-32, 9 fewer wins, 18 fewer losses. 53.7% winrate for MH, 60.49% for Master.

The problem is Sanmu contines to post like this:

"I couldn't care less if you don't respect quickmatch players :P . We've never seen you and don't care for you. We're happy doing our thing and happy to beat you when you try to come to our turf."

He doesn't ask me questions about my views, he makes assumptions about them and then attacks them. My quickmatch rating is higher than his, I never said a single negative thing about quickmatch or those who play it, yet he's quick to try and paint a strawman and then attack it.

"Never thought someone would try to assert their warzone dick size to me over their preference for Strategic 1v1 over Small Earth to me, but here we are. Especially when he isn't even close to the top of the leaderboards for the 1 map he jerks off for."

Same thing here, I had never even mentioned Strat 1v1 aside from saying he was welcome to join that if he really wanted to play me in Clan War. It's not because I am infatuated with strat 1v1, it's because I dislike the rest of the templayes. Strat 2v2 is fine, but not with short turns. Once the two new templates get added I'll join strat 1v1 much less than I have thus far. He's also not making any form of argument about why I'm supposedly not close to the top of the leaderboards. It's like rank 3 on the 1v1 ladder isn't near the top or something. I'm sure he didn't know I've been rank 3 though, because he's consistently shown that he hasn't researched topics enough to be knowledgeable enough about them to have a good foundation before launching personal attacks. I find it actually somewhat amusing that Knyte mentioned he's a law student, because this sort of behavior is the last thing I'd EVER want to see from a lawyer. Lawyers shouldn't be making baseless assumptions and lashing out as the result of them.

"But, make no mistake, you are no master at it. I know dozens of people who'd destroy you at it, and none of them are masters. So don't underestimate them just because they don't meet your idea of what people "should" be playing. Your elitist, ivory-tower bullshit doesn't extend much further than a handful of people."

More of the same. You're assuming I'm bad for some reason. You didn't beat me and then trashtalk, nah, you skipped that, trashtalk from the start, assume your opponent is bad, that's totally the way to win an argument.

You're the one trashtalking me, while I haven't once asserted that you were bad, you're the one making challenges and boasting that you'd win, and you're also the one insistent that the challenges must be in your home court advantage to the greatest extent possible.

What do they call that? Ahh, right, a bad look.

Edited 5/17/2021 17:54:09

I won this

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26932484

he wasnt a MASTER but I made good picks

Nice win King

bring me in boss. I play cw every day, consistency is what matters

so is the much awaited fight series happening? will it be livestreamed

Unlikely. Both agree that sanmu would probably win on RT SE1W and that Nauz would easily win on MD MTL templates but neither seems willing to do a MD SE series. Kind of hoping we get one because it will more or less tell us whether or not SE should be taken seriously. If sanmu beats Nauz on MD SE, then maybe there is something to these SE-only players (although whether their skills would at all translate to medium-sized maps is debatable). If Nauz beats sanmu on MD SE, then, yeah, SE must be pretty easy to solve and shouldn't get confused for a template with strategic merit. We can combine that with what we learn from the SE seasonal (https://www.warzone.com/LadderTeams?ID=4078&Offset=0) and get a much better picture that confirms or challenges our priors about the competitive viability of Small Earth.

Are the elitists right about SE? Or are SE skills vastly underappreciated? Guess we'll never find out.

Although I think I'm at about the same level as sanmu on SEAD. Here's our SEAD games from March onward, in which I went 5-2:

- 03/07 - I win (https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26054619)
- 03/11 - I win (https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26119579)
- 04/15 - I lose (https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26559147)
- 05/03 - I win (https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26782126)
- 05/07 - I win (https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26833178)
- 05/10 - I win (https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26865021)
- 05/10 - I lose (https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26866084)

So I think I'm an adequate substitute here, although I'd never claim to be a good player on SEAD (see my poor showing on the SEAD Ladder - http://wzclot.eastus.cloudapp.azure.com/leagues/418/). And I'm definitely not good on SE1W. Oh and also I'm not wagering coins on this.

If Nauz is up for a multi-day best-of-11 series on Small Earth Auto Dist, then that might be an okay substitute if we really wanna settle this debate. We all know I'm not a good player on conventional strategic templates, so if Nauz beats me on SEAD without having played much of it that would mean that the general skill difference between Nauz and me has more impact than the difference in our SEAD specialization. FWIW, I'm not delusional and I'm pretty sure Nauz would win. But might as well find out.

If Nauz wins, then SEAD will truly no longer be all u NEAD. If he loses, then some merit to the template we must conCEAD. So Nauz, let's just play this out, agREAD? Let's just proCEAD.

Edited 5/17/2021 18:19:55

OK Nauz,

I'm going to try to be as nice to you as possible. It was pretty fun messing with you, I'll admit. But, this has clearly gone too far. I play this game for enjoyment, not to respond to 72 angry texts every morning. I don't think you should bring my career into this. You know nothing about me other than warzone, or anything about me other than this thread. I did not bring your career into it when you tried to humblebrag about your 2 masters. I didn't counter with any information on my career. It's not fair game.

Now about warzone, what SEAD is NEAD said is correct. I felt you were being unbelievably elitist. And you don't agree; or rather, you see things differently. And that's OK. We can agree to disagree. But what's clear is that you did talk shit on SE and me for playing it. Not to mention the numerous times you called me a moron or an equivalent. And that's what led to this situation.

I agree with SEAD. I don't think SE has been "solved" fully yet, and at least not by any active current player. While people can play SE pretty optimally (like 95% ish), the last few percentage points require rigorous case by case knowledge and nuanced ideas. And maybe that isn't interesting for you and you'd rather play another template that has more room for creativity. And that's totally fine if so. But it is interesting for me and I enjoy playing it.

Not only that, but I like the community of people who play it. You don't know them, but many of them are the kind of people who do research on their theses while sipping tea and playing warzone. They are not the kind of people who respond to these threads. That community has been nothing but nice and positive to me.

And that's why I felt so strongly about your elitist comments. They were rude and out of touch. And, if you're going to insult me and my friends in that community, then I'll play you. I gave you 3 options: 1) stop talking shit, 2) admit you'd lose, or 3) play me, and that still stands.

It looks like you've already admitted you'd lose a real time Small Earth series against me. If that's the case, then that's fine. If not, then you either have to withdraw your comments or you have to play me in real time Small Earth. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I personally object to the notion of betting coins on these games; that just seems even more elitist to me. But, like I said, I have people who will support on that front. So we can do a coin match if you want.

But that's just my own personal beef with you. SEAD is NEAD brought another interesting point. This could be a good forum to judge whether your elitist opinions on SE hold any water. SEAD is NEAD is good at Small Earth and he is in the Republic of Korea with me. If you won't play me, then you should play him at the very least.

Good reaction Sanmu!

imagine acting even more immature than me

"I'll play you, best of 11 at small earth and a best of 11 at strat ME. The strat ME is so you can actually prove something objective. Small earth's just because I'm feeling malicious and might as well add insult to injury by beating you at your own game while I'm at it, there's just something sublime about kicking a man while he's down that I can't seem to resist.

But there's a requirement. You need to really put your money where your mouth's at, to make it worth my time, every game has to also have a 1000 coin bet attached to it. If you're actually as confident as you claim to be this shouldn't be an issue."

I accept these terms. If you'll accept a substitution of opponent.

Edited 5/17/2021 22:23:44

I brought you one vena https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26944406

> It looks like you've already admitted you'd lose a real time Small Earth series against me. If that's the case, then that's fine.

I may, that's hardly admitting that I would. I never said I was great at SE, or that you were bad at it. I have no clue if I'd beat you at it, but I'd have a better chance at beating someone that plays it a lot in MD than RT, because short boot timers work in favor of someone who can autopilot the template.

I don't value SE, I didn't insult people who play it. I explained quite clearly why I don't value SE, and why SE is looked down upon by many people, not just myself. MTL and CL are both proof of this.

As far as I'm concerned SE savants are their own subgroup, like Rise of Rome players, diplo players, etc. I don't rate any of those groups. Why? In my eyes they're not even playing the same game I am.

> I accept these terms. If you'll accept a substitution of opponent.

I'll play you, but the two templates change to ME and MME, or just ME if you prefer, not playing SE vs you, that just sounds like pain for both of us since to the best of my knowledge it's not a template you like, or a template you've ever focused on trying to master.

I don't really have a bone to pick with you either though. If I lose to you, your picks that I criticized don't magically become good. They're still bad. If I beat you they don't become worse than they were, they were bad then and they always will be, I don't really see what challenging me to a series is trying to prove. We're both good, neither of us are the best, or even close to it, but I don't think that's news to either of us and I don't think the outcome of the games is going to make either of us concede that the other player is better.

I expected to profit from playing Sanmu, especially if he accepted the ME games and not just the SE.

You? I doubt I'd profit much, maybe not at all, but that's not because I'm admitting defeat or that I don't expect to have a chance, so much as I think you and I are too close in skill for anyone but Fizzer to actually profit from us playing a long series vs one another.

If one of us wins 6-5, the winner loses 200 coins, and the loser loses 2000.
6-4 the winner wins 800, and the loser loses 2800.

Those are the most likely outcomes IMO, one of us "might" win 6-3, but even that seems unlikely to me, and I don't think 6-0, 6-1, or 6-2 are even realistic possibilities.

Winning 6-5 or 6-4 wouldn't prove I am better than you, nor would losing 6-5 or 6-4 prove I am worse than you, so I don't really see what the point of such a challenge is.

AI is 4-5 vs Bechaa on the MTL, I'm 2-1 vs Bechaa. Am I better than AI? Nope. Small sample sizes are just noise unless one of us absolutely dominates the other, and that won't happen.

Game created: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=26949008

Grabs popcorn

Down in front!

@Nauz/Phobos: you shouldn't play coin games every time because that way there's a high chance both of you lose coins doing this. Instead, just play normal games and do a coin transfer game at the end with the full wager, where whoever lost the series surrenders to whoever won the series.

Ooooooh shiiiiittt

Don't break them up!!!
Let them fight, let them wear themselves out, let them beat the snot out of each other!

Edited 5/18/2021 02:09:20

Go Phobos !!!
show at this arrogants masters , they are not the best ^^

Edited 5/18/2021 02:19:20