Bez did use multiaccounts and alts (but tbh, I think there are a lot more) but his using accounts and misusing them is much less serious than Gnuffs.

Stop this nonsense with rapists and murderers.. You are really stupid enough not to see any difference?

Ofcourse I see a difference, I was just taking examples of people who break the rules. I could`ve taken thief and a teacher who says that the holocaust is fake. They are still breaking the rules.

The penitentriary system has been proven to be of no help.

Letting them walk around and do nothing is certainly also not going to help.

And finally - NO - we don't put murderers or rapists in jail to punish them. We make to prevent them from doing it again, and in hope they will take their time and realize what they did was wrong so they will not want to do it again.

You are right, I was wrong on the punishing part. But this doesn`t take a way the fact that Gnuff shouldn`t have any sanction, cause he might not realise what he did and might do it again.

Interesting fact is - some prisoners punished for heavy crimes, after getting out of jail, commit the heaviest yet harmless crimes just to get back in jail, because they are in the difficult situation of knowing what they've done was bad, but still being aware they cannot control themselves fully and being afraid they will harm people again..

Its a game, eventhough I think he should have some kind of sanction, I don`t think he will go crazy and do something like that again because he wants to be banned or something.

I know of at least 5 people from other clans who did abuse the ladders using their alts in different teams. Nobody's whining while I am not the only one who knows..

I don`t care about abusing the ladders. I could`ve guessed it happened and I know it isn`t one person. It is the abuse of trust and accountdetails that bothers me more.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:12:11

From what I've read Beelz is just a goof while gnuff just takes this game waaay to serious.

Come off it Fridge. You would have Gnuff get no punishment?! He undermined the game on a scale never seen before. If it is too much work to remove all ladder achievements, than a permban or deletion as a ladder participant are apt punishment. He did this to make his profile look good, so the best punishment tarnishes his profile. It is not about about prevention ONLY for the miscreant. It is also a deterrent for others considering cheating. It is an act that does not set a precedent allowing cheaters get away with it.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:15:52

I'm not saying that Gnuff (or Belz) should be banned (or that they shouldn't, I don't really care). I'm just pointing out that if people are actually upset at Gnuff for cheating they should be equally upset with Belz.

It doesn't really matter why you cheated, just that you did. It seems like a lot of people don't like Gnuff and that is shaping their reactions, not his actual actions.

It does matter because while Beez did it to make a point, Gnuff did it in a serious attempt to undermine the system in order to better himself.both should be punished though.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:24:37

"Also, I also believe he isn't the only one, Beelz confessed to cheating after his astronomical ladder rating."

I think he was more mocking Gnuffone. The things he claimed he did were the exact things Gnuffone did.

Could be wrong, but the post by Belz seems to be very much tongue-in-cheek, and not really an admission of guilt.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:38:00

Who said anything about erasing Gnuff from WM history? We have former clan mates (JSA, Lolowut, Dodo, etc) that have moved on. They are still listed on our clan pages, and their accolades are listed as well.

I just don't know why you'd want him to currently represent your clan, that is all. If I was personally in your clan, how could I trust him?

Like I said, I am not suggesting you erase him from the history of your clan, I just wouldn't have him in mine, that is all. If he came to me and said "I want to be in WG", I'd say no way. I think you need to ask yourself that. If he were never in WM, would you let him in now?

Anyway, as I said I don't think he should be banned from Warlight, but what is wrong with a ladder ban for a while?

It's the removal of his accolades that is needed. I truely think that Fizzer is portraying himself as having favourites here.

I am divided on this issue. And I think Good Kid is right. Belzebu seemed to be mocking Gnuffone, because what he said was nearly the exact same thing Gnuffone did, including the Italian friend. I still think he is probably Thanthos and Zebedeus but what he said was mockery I think.

Gnuffone did cheat and should be punished. He clearly broke warlight's rules of operating more than one account on a ladder. He did this on the 1v1 ladder with Dark Vengenance. He also has broken the rule about operating multiple amounts in the same tournament many times, but that was the distant past and he should not be punished for that.

When you look at the facts, his only rule breaking lately has been that 1v1 ladder cheat. If he has access to Flyingbender's or Fridge's accounts and uses them, that is not breaking any rules. There is a reason Fizzer has always advised against using anyone else use your account.

He didn't earn first place in the 2v2 ladder, but others haven't deserved it either :) He didn't technically cheat, he was within the rules. He cheated only on the 1v1 ladder, and he took #1 before he cheated. So you can't take those stats away either.

When you compare what Gnuffone did with the rules, he deserves anywhere from a warning to a small suspension. Nothing more.

What [WM] wants to do with Gnuffone is their choice. It's easy to say you'd kick him out of the clan, but when you actually look at it, Gnuffone has been a huge part of [WM]. Fridge said it well. If [WM] enjoys playing with him still, who are we to tell them to kick him out? It might hurt their reputation, and has already. But I think Fridge is right when he says it would be worse if they kicked him out. It brings more attention to the fact that Gnuffone cheated. Everyone would still know Gnuffone was in [WM] when he cheated.

I was neutral when I started this thread, but now I can tell I'm on Gnuffone's side. He techinically broke one rule. He's a dishonest and a cheat. But he broke only one rule. There is no way you can punish him for looking at others' accounts when they give him access to them.

Gnuff is an ugly kid, why do we care.

I agree using other accounts is not cheating. Which is why i just said he needs ladder suspension. Maybe even a forfeit of all wins during that time as well

Well i do agree he SHOULD of been punished, but don't you think its kinda late now?
I don't think Fizzer will ban him like 1 or 2 months later after he got exploited lol.

But i think the reason that Fizzer is not banning him is because he thinks that Gnuffone got his punishment from the forum posters. Everybody roasted him and I would not want to be Gnuff reading all those messages :P


The ONLY thing that really pisses me off is that he made a forum post about how he was RETIRING in which he BRAGGED about all his achievments, yet remains as active as ever.... that sickens me. He basically made that post to fill hes big EGO. Damn if or when i retire, it will be for good.


This is for all the people that say they will retire and dont:



Edited 4/26/2014 02:49:48

And finally - NO - we don't put murderers or rapists in jail to punish them. We make to prevent them from doing it again, and in hope they will take their time and realize what they did was wrong so they will not want to do it again.

Woah, it's almost scary you think that, tbh. That is plain wrong.

Justice means to express fairness, equity and equality. In the case of the criminal justice system it is that the person pays a fair compensation for the crime they've committed.

In other words, we ABSOLUTELY put murderers and rapists in prison as a form of punishment. As a form of compensation for the life or freedom they stole.

If we kept them solely for the purpose of rehabilitation, then no prisoner would be released without a thorough psychoanalysis and each would have their own psychologist and extensive therapy, which is not the case.

Back to the topic. Gnuff betrayed trust, lied and jumped through a number of loopholes, but did he really cheat? He walked some very gray areas, but look through the WarLight rules and see if he broke any rules verbatim.

Gaming the ladder: He didn't play any games unfairly, though the operation of alts gave him a boost, it wasn't technically cheating.

Team Games: Spying on others was only possible because they gave their password. Honestly, it was low and pathetic, but not technically breaking any WarLight rules since he didn't hack their accounts to gain access.

Multiple accounts in tournaments: Unless he used alts to sabotage team games (which I haven't seen yet) he didn't break any rules. Even if it gave him more chances to win, again, it's not explicitly against WarLight rules.

So my question is, what WarLight rules did he explicitly break? If some claims are presented with prove that's a different story. Otherwise, Gnuff may be an ass, but he didn't cheat in the literal sense of the meaning.

Edited 4/26/2014 03:43:26

Taisho, he broke two rules, that's a fact:

http://wiki.warlight.net/index.php/Rules

- You shall not operate more than one WarLight account in a way that gives you an advantage in a game, tournament or ladder.
- using someone else's account without their permission is forbidden

I still have respect for him as a strong player. If he managed to swindle all that he did and get off (essentially) scot free, good for him... I'm not saying it's right. I believe he should not go unpunished. Forum bashing is not a tough sentence. Many people have to deal with that regularly, just 'being themselves'. Good game, Gnuffone. Looks like you got away with it.

I got a warning for (unrightfully) calling someone pathetic for farming tournament wins. Gnuff gets off free for what he did... O_o

While I was absent in this whole saga of Gnuffone and his actions I personally thought I knew gnuffone and that initital assesment made me think it unlikely he would actually do all these things.
On the other hand, now I've played several games versus him again asking him about what happened here I do have to agree with Arun and others on Gnuffone and a punishment.

Gnuffone literally has zero regret for what he's done and he will just apologize or flatter one time but think another thing at the same time. Where once I deemed gnuffone and szeweningen to be on the same level (as example to compare WM members) it just isn't the same. Gameplay wise they might be just as strong, but the personality of Gnuffone is just so much more rotten.

Taisho, he broke two rules, that's a fact:

You forget the terms of service which he broke even more clearly. As cited by the wikipedia page:
"It's also important to note that additional rules exist in the WarLight terms of service. These rules aren't displayed as prominently since they're common sense, but they still apply. Examples include, but are not limited to, impersonating other players, launching denial-of-service attacks, or using someone else's account without their permission."

Edited 4/26/2014 08:38:08

"using someone else's account without their permission is forbidden"

Surely this is also partly the other accounts fault, for letting him know the account details. Or am I missing something?

People could lend an account for others to take care of it while they're gone. It does involve a certain issue of trust be the trust merited or not.
But if you would own a house and go on vacation and you're friendly with your neighbours you might decide that you would give them access so they could maintain the mail and take care of the cat or something. If they then decide to just steal all your items they would still commit a crime even though you admitted they could go inside. The issue here that when you lend out your account it is under certain criteria, break those criteria and you still use it without one's permission.

Exactly. Also, it makes no difference about timing. If iI murder someone and it's only discovered next year do I get off free? 'Ahh it's a bit late lets just drop this case'. You gave a warped view of justice. It isn't only about Gnuffone here. Fizzer risks setting a precedent for letting the most extensive cheaters get off. If he bans someone in the future for a similar breach of the rule than he risks displaying favouritism.

Edited 4/26/2014 10:50:50