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Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/25/2014 23:42:07


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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I agree using other accounts is not cheating. Which is why i just said he needs ladder suspension. Maybe even a forfeit of all wins during that time as well
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 02:40:54


TheWarlightMaster 
Level 60
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Well i do agree he SHOULD of been punished, but don't you think its kinda late now?
I don't think Fizzer will ban him like 1 or 2 months later after he got exploited lol.

But i think the reason that Fizzer is not banning him is because he thinks that Gnuffone got his punishment from the forum posters. Everybody roasted him and I would not want to be Gnuff reading all those messages :P


The ONLY thing that really pisses me off is that he made a forum post about how he was RETIRING in which he BRAGGED about all his achievments, yet remains as active as ever.... that sickens me. He basically made that post to fill hes big EGO. Damn if or when i retire, it will be for good.


This is for all the people that say they will retire and dont:



Edited 4/26/2014 02:49:48
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 03:42:08


Taishō 
Level 57
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And finally - NO - we don't put murderers or rapists in jail to punish them. We make to prevent them from doing it again, and in hope they will take their time and realize what they did was wrong so they will not want to do it again.


Woah, it's almost scary you think that, tbh. That is plain wrong.

Justice means to express fairness, equity and equality. In the case of the criminal justice system it is that the person pays a fair compensation for the crime they've committed.

In other words, we ABSOLUTELY put murderers and rapists in prison as a form of punishment. As a form of compensation for the life or freedom they stole.

If we kept them solely for the purpose of rehabilitation, then no prisoner would be released without a thorough psychoanalysis and each would have their own psychologist and extensive therapy, which is not the case.

Back to the topic. Gnuff betrayed trust, lied and jumped through a number of loopholes, but did he really cheat? He walked some very gray areas, but look through the WarLight rules and see if he broke any rules verbatim.

Gaming the ladder: He didn't play any games unfairly, though the operation of alts gave him a boost, it wasn't technically cheating.

Team Games: Spying on others was only possible because they gave their password. Honestly, it was low and pathetic, but not technically breaking any WarLight rules since he didn't hack their accounts to gain access.

Multiple accounts in tournaments: Unless he used alts to sabotage team games (which I haven't seen yet) he didn't break any rules. Even if it gave him more chances to win, again, it's not explicitly against WarLight rules.

So my question is, what WarLight rules did he explicitly break? If some claims are presented with prove that's a different story. Otherwise, Gnuff may be an ass, but he didn't cheat in the literal sense of the meaning.

Edited 4/26/2014 03:43:26
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 07:00:03


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 60
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Taisho, he broke two rules, that's a fact:

http://wiki.warlight.net/index.php/Rules

- You shall not operate more than one WarLight account in a way that gives you an advantage in a game, tournament or ladder.
- using someone else's account without their permission is forbidden
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 08:14:20


Daisuke Jigen
Level 56
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I still have respect for him as a strong player. If he managed to swindle all that he did and get off (essentially) scot free, good for him... I'm not saying it's right. I believe he should not go unpunished. Forum bashing is not a tough sentence. Many people have to deal with that regularly, just 'being themselves'. Good game, Gnuffone. Looks like you got away with it.
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 08:17:13


Master Potato
Level 59
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I got a warning for (unrightfully) calling someone pathetic for farming tournament wins. Gnuff gets off free for what he did... O_o
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 08:34:08


Aranka 
Level 43
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While I was absent in this whole saga of Gnuffone and his actions I personally thought I knew gnuffone and that initital assesment made me think it unlikely he would actually do all these things.
On the other hand, now I've played several games versus him again asking him about what happened here I do have to agree with Arun and others on Gnuffone and a punishment.

Gnuffone literally has zero regret for what he's done and he will just apologize or flatter one time but think another thing at the same time. Where once I deemed gnuffone and szeweningen to be on the same level (as example to compare WM members) it just isn't the same. Gameplay wise they might be just as strong, but the personality of Gnuffone is just so much more rotten.

Taisho, he broke two rules, that's a fact:


You forget the terms of service which he broke even more clearly. As cited by the wikipedia page:
"It's also important to note that additional rules exist in the WarLight terms of service. These rules aren't displayed as prominently since they're common sense, but they still apply. Examples include, but are not limited to, impersonating other players, launching denial-of-service attacks, or using someone else's account without their permission."

Edited 4/26/2014 08:38:08
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 09:03:54


Mudderducker 
Level 59
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"using someone else's account without their permission is forbidden"


Surely this is also partly the other accounts fault, for letting him know the account details. Or am I missing something?
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 09:55:13


Aranka 
Level 43
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People could lend an account for others to take care of it while they're gone. It does involve a certain issue of trust be the trust merited or not.
But if you would own a house and go on vacation and you're friendly with your neighbours you might decide that you would give them access so they could maintain the mail and take care of the cat or something. If they then decide to just steal all your items they would still commit a crime even though you admitted they could go inside. The issue here that when you lend out your account it is under certain criteria, break those criteria and you still use it without one's permission.
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 10:02:51


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Exactly. Also, it makes no difference about timing. If iI murder someone and it's only discovered next year do I get off free? 'Ahh it's a bit late lets just drop this case'. You gave a warped view of justice. It isn't only about Gnuffone here. Fizzer risks setting a precedent for letting the most extensive cheaters get off. If he bans someone in the future for a similar breach of the rule than he risks displaying favouritism.

Edited 4/26/2014 10:50:50
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 10:23:54

Jehovah 
Level 59
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Gather round, everyone, gather round.

It is my honor to award the annual 'good citizen' award to G Arun for his fierce and unparalleled determination for the justice of Warlight to be held in his mighty and noble quest against Gnuffone the unbeatable! All give a round of applause to G Arun! Three cheers! Hip Hip.... hooray!

Edited 4/26/2014 10:28:30
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 10:35:41


Ineffable 
Level 61
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it is up to Fizzer to decide if he should be punished and how all we can do is report him
btw
http://warlight.net/Profile?p=2629416877

http://warlight.net/Profile?p=1627801903

http://warlight.net/Profile?p=907472903

all inactive 2 days thoughts?

Edited 4/26/2014 10:36:03
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 10:50:25


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Obvious alts. We already knew about Dark Vengeance but that just supports the suspicion of his new alt.

Jehovah, people get warnings for a lot less. Why should Gnuff get away with it?
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 11:08:36

NewWorldOrder
Level 58
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where ever it says he won or holds a record just add(may have cheated to get this)problem solved? lets face it hes not that good any way.
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 12:01:49


Mudderducker 
Level 59
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@Aranka I agree with you completly. But this follows on to my next point. Why does the person not change his account details after it is looked after. Similar to a house, the neighbours return the keys surely? Not a lot of people can be trusted in this world, let alone on the Internet. This is bound to happen many times. Though with this point I have no sympathy for Gnuffone. I just feel a banning of the account is to far.
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 13:06:02


Taishō 
Level 57
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Taisho, he broke two rules, that's a fact:

http://wiki.warlight.net/index.php/Rules

- using someone else's account without their permission is forbidden


VII. WarLight Accounts
In order to access some features of the Service, you will have to create a WarLight Account. Users are restricted from use of another's Users Account without permission. Users are restricted from impersonating another User's Account. When creating a User Account, you must provide accurate and complete information. Users are solely responsible for the activity that occurs on User Account, and Users must keep Account password secure. You must notify WarLight, LLC. immediately of any breach of security or unauthorized use of a User Account.


According to this, the person who gave their password to Gnuff claims responsibility for their actions. Most notably:

Users are solely responsible for the activity that occurs on User Account, and Users must keep Account password secure.

As soon as you give your password to another person, you claim responsibility over ANY actions this person takes over your account, ergo the meaning of sole responsibility.

This part: You must notify WarLight, LLC. immediately of any breach of security or unauthorized use of a User Account.

Implies hacking, however because it is vague, can apply to a 2nd party using the account without permission. Again, since Gnuff has the password he can argue that he had permission.

- You shall not operate more than one WarLight account in a way that gives you an advantage in a game, tournament or ladder.


This part is also a little vague. For example, if he won the game with an alt and it had a different name, then he technically did nothing wrong. If however, the alts had his name and (with clear and concise evidence) he favored his main account over his alts, then he broke this rule. Operating alts is not illegal and it's hard to punish for this since alts who win gain prestige over the main account.

Also, anyone who has ever shared accounts has mixed their IPs into other player pools, so it becomes difficult to determine who should be punished for what. It then becomes difficult to determine which alts are Gnuffs and which belong to players who have shared accounts with Gnuff, unless Gnuff explicitly says that said account is his (which is only his testimony and difficult to take at face value).

impersonating other players


This is done countless time, often as a joke. If it were to get serious, Fizzer would no doubt respond, but at the same time "acting in a manner that satires another player's personality or actions" is different and NOT ILLEGAL. That's not really relevant, but I'd like to point this out.

The English language is easy to manipulate, that's why terms of service are often pages long and very precise. In most of these cases Gnuff can argue his way out of any serious trouble and at most, get a warning or temporary suspension.

ONE MORE THING, he gained all his trophies fairly. He become 1st on the 1v1 ladder and 2v2 ladder presumably without cheating. Taking these trophies away would be unjustified.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him, but you guys lack hard evidence. Some are also trying to strip him of achievements he gained fairly...which could be a form of compensation, but realistically is unrelated.

Edited 4/26/2014 13:09:20
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 13:36:43


∀ÆGÜSTUS∀
Level 55
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lol no need to keep arguing :) alts are for practice purpose xD for me
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 14:15:14


ps 
Level 61
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i have nothing against Gnuffone, i like him as a person, but on principle i have to agree with what Arun wrote on the first page of this discussion. If there is no consequence for cheating then what's stopping hordes of trolls from following his example? I for one would not wish to have tournaments and ladders that i am participating in ruined by cheaters.
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 17:07:38


Addy the Dog 
Level 62
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[cocks fedora] ah'm roundin' up a posse to capture the scoundrel gnuffone and teach him a lesson. any'a you pussies wanna join me?
Why does Gnuff not banned?: 4/26/2014 17:25:28


Daisuke Jigen
Level 56
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Just call me Master Lasso.
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