D lineups are now on the sheet.

Guys, sorry for the delay ...

Merry Christmas everyone.

I am sending the list with the 6 of the team.

SexMaxchine - https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=277806791
TIO*-*END - https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=11100987366
[BR]vontheevil - https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=457277987
safwan - https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=8747455735
Furacão.BR - https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=535249083
Gilgamesh - https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=4942165064

If you can reconsider our declassification, we will be very grateful.

Christmas gift.

I cannot confirm re-entry until lineups are ready. Thanks for getting it together though.

I don't believe a clan, already way past deadline, should be entered once the line ups have been revealed. There is no way this would be allowed in Div A, so you need to be consistent throughout.

I probably would tbh, clans dropping out just adds extra work, which I would personally like to avoid.
That being said, I would require any clan to drop to the bottom division, as punishment probably though.

That being said I'll have a chat with the Ethics panel about it.

Tbh, I think daftpunk makes a good point. Stop just making up rules that are convenient for you. In the last 16 posts, you have disqualified a clan, basically said you'll allow them back in, and then just completely made up a rule dropping them to the bottom division.

He certainly does make a good point, or I would not bring it up the the ethics panel.

That being said, it requires a lot of work on the sheet, that I could go without doing if BR were to play, and it would be much better for the division to be 7 clans rather than 6.

Clans have gone past deadlines before (rp in CL10) and been allowed back in. Albeit that was a roster deadline and not the lineup deadline.

Also, that is not a rule. "As punishment probably though" was meant to show as a thought in my head. In a case like that much more discussion would have to be made.

Sorry, if some of ya'll disagree with me on things, but I'm doing the best that I can do.

Just do what's logical to you. You're doing great. Don't listen to pissants like Bonsai whose every post is a complaint.

Its a good point, @daftpunk. But I don't think FUDEW used any tactics to see before line up and then take decisions about their team. Maybe they are only a bit lazy :d

But yes, this situation is not the best for managing clan league's stuff. All clan managers haves to think a bit that Cowboy haves to much work to do and we only haves to respect the dates, nothing more.

it doesn't hurt anyone or anything to let them in. Why not let them in? They would not disrupt schedule.

It is Christmas, season of giving!

yes, Cowboy does do a lot of work and I am very grateful for it, and I understand if he doesn't want to let them in. I respect your decision either way

Edited 12/26/2019 12:51:37

The clan league panel is waiting to overrule whatever decision Cowboy makes.

It's a game with rules but it's a game they love and we love to play. Allowing them to play will be the best thing. From the last division.

Did they do it on purpose? Did they ever gave us such an impression?
We could throw the responsibility to the clan leaders of the last division and tell them vote if you want them to take part.
But this is a decision the clan league manager should take.
You either uphold the rules as they are or you send a message that the rules will bend as I see feet.
For me the second is the best, in the end next season all against you can ask to be removed and do all this hard work you and the panels are doing.

Let the guys play and keep up the good work!!!!
Merry christmas!!!!

The clan league panel is waiting to overrule whatever decision Cowboy makes.

I've contacted the audit panel already.
They're on standby to nullify the decision of the clan league panel.

To be fair, Cowboy did not notify clan leaders the league was getting under way. In the past Warzone mail was sent and also a chat game created. This happened for many years, then was dropped sometime recently. So like myself, I suspect they just don't frequent the forums. We are just fortunate that Reza and Super do, or we would have been in the same boat.

That's not true. With about a week left of signups to go I pmed every clan who might play that didn't sign up from VS to PG.

Beyond that I have allowed 2 late additions past the signup marker. (TLA and Vikinger)

I also pmed both contacts for not only BR, but Celtica and other clans as well.

Checkmqte and Farah also did the same.

Edited 12/26/2019 15:19:39

@Viking because line ups have been revealed. This is my point. Prior to this, deadlines can be moved with no direct implication or possible advantage. FUDEW, could (I'm not saying they have or would) now adapt their line up by putting stronger players in what is a perceived weaker tournament.

Allowing them to play sets a precedent going forward that's my main concern. If they play or don't is neither here nor there for me directly. That's a decision for the panel and we should all accept that decision.

Cowboy is doing a stellar job, and his communication has been fine. FUDEW chose to ignore his frequent messages hence the situation.

@daftpunk, yes, I understand your point.

In my opinion, if they did not even rly see the mail or respond or post in this forum for quite sometime until a few days ago, I doubt they have looked at line-ups. And if they put stronger players in a weaker tourney, so be it. The weaker players would then most likely play on the stronger other clans tourneys.

I see no reason the panel can't let them play, but as like you said, the decision is fully up to the panel and I respect the decision either way.

Either way of the decision, FUDEW did not "choose to ignore" Cowboy's messages. They must have saw them if they knew the rosters and line-ups were due soon and they were overdue.

TIO, the person currently putting things together for them was neither the primary or secondary contact btw. Which makes me want to be a bit more lenient, because it wasn't his fault. He was asked in a game why BR wasn't playing, and had no clue that their managers hadn't gotten it all together.

A few things.

First, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun. It's more fun if people get to play than if they don't.

Second, the deadlines were right around Christmas. Many people don't check WL as much around the holidays, so it's easy to miss deadlines.

Third, this isn't necessarily a play/don't play dichotomy. Cowboy could allow them to play but with a points deduction if people believe they got an advantage by submitting a lineup after other teams had public lineups.

Fourth, CL is run for free by volunteers. If people are making things more difficult for the organizers, the organizers are under no obligation to accommodate them or let them play.

I mostly agree with Beren's points and wanted to add my own.

1) On rules being determined ahead of time versus rulings made on the fly. Any leadership position should do the best to anticipate situations, but then adjust things when new situations show up. I think Cowboy has done a good job of balancing these two things, and he does all of this just because he wants to.

2) On Fudew being allowed to play. Personally I'd be ok with either ruling and would if my clan was playing in D. Deadlines are deadlines, and missing them should be able to disqualify a clan. That said whoever sets the deadline has the ability to apply leniency at their discretion.

3) On gaming lineups. Yes this makes a big difference. That said I'm not certain a clan that is disorganized enough to miss a deadline is organized enough to game theory a lineup.