Dubs,
I know many Sikhs who are monotheists but think that their way of worshipping God is only one of the valid ways of doing so.

I agree with your logic mostly but it does not imply what religion claims.
The way of worshiping anything has nothing to do with the validity of the worship.
Those who think that as long as you are spiritual, it doesn't matter which god you worship, are just being duped.
Any religion is a practice of fraud which exploits spirituality(or what we don't know yet) to make people do what they want them to do.
Monotheism is something we human invented, it was always many gods before.
With time our leaders saw it more fitting to have one god = one leader.
They just changed the religion according to their needs.

I must have misread... I took: 'If you believe in a religion, you have to give it your complete obedience.' to suggest that you thought monotheism implied particularism.

Monotheism does not imply particular-ism, but religion itself does. Since what ever god says, is right by definition. So if you claim to believe in any god, then you must obey everything he says including all the particulars.
So if god says that all those who work on Sunday must be put to death for breaking one of the sacred commandments all theists that are either:
a. Islam
b. Christianity
c. Judaism

Must kill those people else they are not true believers but hypocrites.

Well all believers are hypocrites with themselves and others by definition. The ones that weren't we put them in jail or the electric chair since we call them terrorists.

You are forgetting that the belief of one god is ancient as well. Christianity is not a newer religion. Catholicism is relatively newer on the time scale, but the belief of one God does go back thousands of years as well. Albeit, it was a relatively small religion until the end of the first millennia.
Second part, about your believers being hypocrites. If you believe in Christianity, you will now that we live in a sinful world. Believers try to follow the ten commandments, but they also acknowledge that they will continue to sin. They believe that everyone sins, believer or not. That is the reason they believe that humanity needed a savior, Jesus Christ.

Edited 4/23/2014 13:45:36

They believe that everyone sins, believer or not. That is the reason they believe that humanity needed a savior, Jesus Christ.

HaHa, it is the church(new testament) that turned the breaking of god's commandments into sins.
The old testament was clear as day on the punishment involved in breaking those commandments.
Death

There is no soul or afterlife in the old testament.
The worst punishment is Death.

Christianity created a more evil god that can give even worse punishments then death.
Eternal torture for everyone that doesn't believe.

I know it is hard to accept but it is the truth, from all the atrocities in the old testament ordered by god himself.
Compared to the christian god, the old testament god is a cry baby when it comes to pure evil.

Although what you said is true, I believe that death is used in several ways. Death can be a literal mortal punishment, but it can also be used in the term of spiritual death, meaning hell. But you do have good points, I'll give you that.

But you do have good points, I'll give you that.

That is a quality not usually found in a believer. Honesty.

I can assure you, there is no such thing as spiritual death in the old testament.

God goes to the length of explaining how they should be slaughtered.
However it usually does not involve torture.

Something the christian god seems to like very much, considering what he did to his own son because he is so omnipotent that he can't even forgive without a human sacrifice(his own son).

Edited 4/24/2014 00:29:19

Hello
@Dubs:
Although what you said is true[...]
No, it's not true. Of course there is a concept of afterlife in the Old Testament:
http://www.bibleserver.com/text/NIV/Daniel12

There simply is no greater entity than the flying spaghetti monster, creator of it all...universe, girls, beer, nature and all the other fancy gods ofc.

Im ok with the other gods though they and their followers really make a bloody mess sometimes, but how could i not be ok with them if the flying master created it all with his spaghettis and meat balls?

Also you cant proof me wrong, so i must be right.

Oh yeah, really old stuff....but thats always the case with religion, isnt it?

Christians must be the dumbest fuckers ever. Say a few things that sound clever and they're suddenly thinking it's the wisest shit since sliced Moses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

http://www.studymode.com/essays/Bertrand-Russell%27s-First-Cause-Argument-43916.html (note that this is study material from somebody containing the persons views on Russel's argument, i couldnt find a better one quickly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPDW-Es-icI - Some incapacities of logical consistent thinking (which in this context pretty much boils down to being too weak to accept facts that arent consoling and/or having an immature, poorly developed brain structure) revealed here, some in a quite funny way. Offended? Grow a brain, a proper spine and balls (or boobies, whatever suits you best) - you still can probably.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ5QG3MUTtg - Religion being just human nature? And if so it must be a good thing, right!? Are you agnostic or atheistic? Maybe you will be surprised to learn you didnt even really knew it yourself so far. And other basic stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiBIkTHvXLw - Stupid Atheists (Watch it! Comrades - its really unbelieveable!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM3WVL3DvZM - Stupid, or probably better ignorant/ properly indoctrinated, christian, defending slavery - because fearing his god. Ignoring his own "logics".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32KfqZhJZXA - Must watch in this context! I give you that, the goodhearted christian caller is not the brightest bulb in town, neither the most strongest person. Hosts do all to reach him by emotional, practical arguments - the hypocrisy and flaws in logic - and its consequences are still quite astonishing. Watch a killing spree being interpreted as a miracle and god proof by your goodhearted christian neighbour - due to his inability of logical thinking and leaving his comfort zone. Naturally it also holds some of the most basic, very very simple explanations of why religion can be dangerous and evil.


If you're through with that and you might have come across some stuff that is new to you (be it bad or good, from your point of view), you may enjoy this as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm2WDlEbh0 - A one hour plus debate on some of the topics/ arguments involved, between Prof. Richard Dawkins (evolutionary biologist and atheist) and Prof. John Lennox (mathematician and christian).

Edited 4/29/2014 15:04:06

@Aranka

Since i now actually have made the mistake to almost go through all of the posts here:

"Atheist are people who deny all religions."

That is a false conception. They dont think there is a god. This might imply they deny all religions as well but it doesnt necessary have to imply that.

Is that too precise for you, so details dont matter for you? Well, im also of the opinion people gave you good answers and actually falsified your argument. I must agree with them that you obviously only came here to say your point is true and not willing to seek proof of different models to explain what seems to bugger you (camouflaged by showing interest in other persons views and asking about them).

It therefore makes not much sense to keep discussing with you and the thread should either be hijacked - so to expand the actual topic - or be abandoned. ^^

Edited 4/29/2014 18:32:01

always beware youtube intellectuals. evidence in the form of a youtube link is less than worthless.

youtube is for videos of cute animals, epic fails and stealing music. not philosophy of religion.

beware youtube intellectuals. the illiterati.

Edited 4/29/2014 17:20:27

I honestly never understood why some people have to go our of their way to denounce Christians.
If I am wrong and atheism is right then I have wasted my time. But then nothing matters because me and you are non-existant and I wouldn't be able to regret wasting my time.

However If you are wrong you are now hypothetically in hell and I am in heaven.

I would just like to say I would rather believe in a afterlife then believe nothing else happens.

@Mulva

Your argument is an empty rhetoric figure - a common place - something that people can easily nod their head to and agree upon because its normally true - but has actually no meaning in the actual context though it appears to have (as normally it is true in the majority of other cases).

What does that mean? Normally (in the vast majority of cases) i would agree with you (just as most people) but in this actual context: those links contain mostly statements from a former Oxford and Berkely professor, a member of the Royal Society who has also published works regarded to be fundamental work on his topic.

So if a former Oxford and Berkely professor lets his lectures being filmed and posted on youtube he becomes an illiterate person and all his highly distinguished arguments invalid by some magical form of tranformation? ^^

Since i guess no halfway intelligent person with common sense would be able to understand the explanation you could give for that - you truely must be more educated and brighter than him then? Probably more humble as well. ^^

Also you starting your "arguments" by ignoring the very fact i started mine with a link to an encyclopedia article, not a youtube link.

So one might make the point: so even if we would take your argument seriously and for true - you actually dont even stay consistent and true within your own set of arguments.

What does this mean? You either made a stupid (and pretty bigheaded, arrogant) ignorant statement or you actually made it by intention in an attempt to, somehow, intelligently fool and deceive people. ^^

Anything more to say? Please come better prepared before running your mouth that big.

Edited 4/29/2014 18:28:01

Blah blah blah.

There is a higher power... me!

This was merely posted and left here for people interested on the matter - which includes being willing to hear and research both sides. I wont reply to any trolling attempts nor do i have the intention to actively join a big debate actively. But a stupid half-baked attempt to discredit my posts and the arguments contained like Mulvas needed to be adressed quickly - especially if it is most likely not even written in good intention and with a true heart.

@Dubs
"If I am wrong and atheism is right then I have wasted my time. But then nothing matters because me and you are non-existant and I wouldn't be able to regret wasting my time."

I find that view to be astonishing strange but ofc interesting therefore. And would actually somehow enjoy a chat on it - but am aware it wouldnt lead to anything most probably. And as said didnt plan to join a big discussion. Cant completely resist though: if you were proven wrong and therefore would have to accept the scientific explanation for life and reality - how would that cancel reality which ofc includes both our existence? Seems like a simple contradiction to me (assumed likely reason: probably you still cant let go of the christian model, even in an hypothetic abstract experiment of thought)

Im not even going to bother with your fear of hell which (-i mean pretty obviously-) seems to be the very basis of your line of thoughts here. No person should live in fear - unless he has committed horrible acts of crime - its a frantic state of mind to be in and poorly suited to make good decisions and judgements.
I do wish you all the best!

Edited 4/29/2014 18:49:01

I am not scared of hell. I am scared of living a pointless existence which I believe is what most people want to do these days.

well good luck with finding the point to your existence then

Lol you know if you make a positive impact on something then your life has a point. No need for unproved higher beings; do with your life what you want.

colonel, take a look at your post. run-on sentences. one-sentence paragraphs. because your reading material consists primarily of youtube comments, your mind has been obliterated.

Also you starting your "arguments"

who said arguments? only you. please remember that quotation marks are for quotations only. fabricated quotations = straw man arguments.

Normally (in the vast majority of cases) i would agree with you

thank you for parenthetically defining the word "normally". i wasn't sure what that meant.

i started mine with a link to an encyclopedia article, not a youtube link.

a wikipedia link does not absolve a youtube intellectual. you think it does, which confirms you as one.

ratio of evidence as articles:videos - 1:3. ratio sufficient to hypothesise youtube intellectualism.

So if a former Oxford and Berkely professor lets his lectures being filmed and posted on youtube he becomes an illiterate person and all his highly distinguished arguments invalid by some magical form of tranformation? ^^

It is perfectly acceptable to create and to watch online videos, films and television shows. if it is your primary method of gathering knowledge by a wide margin, you are a part of the illiterati. if youtube is your primary method, your brain will become irreparably warped by videos of questionable quality and moron commenters.

why youtube videos are worthless evidence: there is no way to skim through it; it is unnavigable. You aren't able to stop and re-read things. You can't copy/paste quotes into discussions. youtube comments. and all these reasons presuppose that the video is worth watching, which is regularly not the case.

why youtube videos are less than worthless: they mark you out as a youtube intellectual.

[You think you are smarter than Richard Dawkins?] ^^

Well, I've seen some of the shit he says on his twitter account. and to me, his existential opinions are quasi-religious. aside from that, no.

That's a good view to have Arun. If you're able to hold on to it. Unproved higher beings would have the same problem as we do anyway, namely: what's the point?

Here's another tangentially relevant youtube vid just to fuck with x. Also because it's fun to watch Lawrence Krauss being a pompous dick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbD6qt2pTZ4

Edited 4/30/2014 13:42:17