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Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 14:28:02


The Lord
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A woman's brain is different from a man's brain. A woman's brain tells the woman to be feminine: nice, nurturing, submissive, quiet etc.

Feminism however tells that woman to be the opposite - a man, or more precisely the obnoxious feminist caricature of a man. Aggressive, combative, loud, sleep with lots of partners etc.

This creates an inner conflict in a woman as her nature tells her to be one way and the ideology tells her the opposite. It's extremely tiring, and the longer that woman tries to be what she's not built to be, the angrier she gets and eventually she starts hating and resenting men. After all, she has a woman's brain and can never be a man, so her life is doomed to be a failure if she continues walking down that path.

I know, I know, this is all hate speech, but it's also the truth. Sometimes truth hurts.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 15:13:45


Cata Cauda
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A woman's brain tells the woman to be feminine: nice, nurturing, submissive, quiet etc.

I need to stop you right there. It is true that the brain of both genders are different, but not this kind of different. The genderroles are created by society as a whole (really mainly by men), not by nature.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 15:35:25


The Lord
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Just one example: studies show infant boys prefer to play with cars and infant girls prefer to play with dolls. This is much earlier than any sort of education takes place. It's all about biology, nothing to do with societal gender roles.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 17:25:06


Zero2
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"A woman's brain is different from a man's brain. A woman's brain tells the woman to be feminine: nice, nurturing, submissive, quiet etc."
"Feminism however tells that woman to be the opposite - a man, or more precisely the obnoxious feminist caricature of a man. Aggressive, combative, loud, sleep with lots of partners etc."


Eh the way I see it one of the main points of feminism is that men and women don't always abide naturally and instinctively by gender roles. It's less that women are trying to be like men, and more that women are trying to be themselves rather than having to abide by a preselected system of behaviors.

"This creates an inner conflict in a woman as her nature tells her to be one way and the ideology tells her the opposite. It's extremely tiring, and the longer that woman tries to be what she's not built to be, the angrier she gets and eventually she starts hating and resenting men. After all, she has a woman's brain and can never be a man, so her life is doomed to be a failure if she continues walking down that path."

And you're pulling all of this out of your ass, because it's what you think. It's ironic how anti-feminists do the same exact thing that feminists do - you create theories based on your narrow perspective of a phenomenon, and assert those theories as indisputable fact. All I can say after this is that hopefully one day your view on feminism will change as you gain a better understanding of how other people think.

Edited 12/22/2018 17:26:12
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 18:40:19


The Lord
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Eh the way I see it one of the main points of feminism is that men and women don't always abide naturally and instinctively by gender roles. It's less that women are trying to be like men, and more that women are trying to be themselves rather than having to abide by a preselected system of behaviors.


There is always some variance, and some women are fairly well equipped to work in a traditionally male line of work and vice versa. That said, the general biological trend is clear. Men like engineering, women like nursing.

The problem is that feminism is trying to make men and women the same, which is a recipe for disaster because they are not the same. Quotas for women in top management and in engineering (though not in garbage collecting because that's just a shit job women don't like). Endless talk about the gender pay gap that doesn't exist.

And you're pulling all of this out of your ass, because it's what you think. It's ironic how anti-feminists do the same exact thing that feminists do - you create theories based on your narrow perspective of a phenomenon, and assert those theories as indisputable fact. All I can say after this is that hopefully one day your view on feminism will change as you gain a better understanding of how other people think.


Women are just plain not built to be competitive, powerful CEOs of large corporations. That's why you don't see almost any of them. The ones that do exist are mostly diversity hires that don't do any good to their company's bottom line. Same is true for any competitive mental sports like chess, Dota, Starcraft etc, you hardly ever see a single woman in world championship tournaments. The only chess world championships women win are women's championships.

When I look at relationships around me, it's the traditional ones that stand the test of time. When the woman is the head of the household, she typically hates the ground her husband walks on. Those marriages are often unhappy or just end in divorce. The older generations had marriages that for the most part lasted till death.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 19:01:14


Zero2
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"The problem is that feminism is trying to make men and women the same, which is a recipe for disaster because they are not the same. Quotas for women in top management and in engineering (though not in garbage collecting because that's just a shit job women don't like). Endless talk about the gender pay gap that doesn't exist."

I do agree with you more on this post, and many feminists do take things too far when it comes to gender parity. I personally do not believe that gender quotas are necessary either, and it is in fact true that the pay gap doesn't exist to the level that is parroted. You are right about all that.

"Women are just plain not built to be competitive, powerful CEOs of large corporations. That's why you don't see almost any of them. The ones that do exist are mostly diversity hires that don't do any good to their company's bottom line. Same is true for any competitive mental sports like chess, Dota, Starcraft etc, you hardly ever see a single woman in world championship tournaments. The only chess world championships women win are women's championships."

This might be due to a general contrast in interest. There is a lot that none of us really understand fully in regards to phenomenon like these, and the puzzle in my opinion isn't complete. What I mean is can we really say for sure how much of this is due to social and cultural influence vs biological influence?
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 19:22:18


The Lord
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This might be due to a general contrast in interest. There is a lot that none of us really understand fully in regards to phenomenon like these, and the puzzle in my opinion isn't complete. What I mean is can we really say for sure how much of this is due to social and cultural influence vs biological influence?


I'd say there is a strong cultural pressure for women and men to act against their biology. Everyone who dares question that men and women are the same is labeled a hateful sexist in the media. By a process of elimination, the only thing that remains to explain the differences is biology.

Also, to come back to engineering and nursing, the gender gap is actually the widest globally in Scandinavian countries, where men and women have the highest freedom to choose their occupation. In Iran you have a much higher percentage of female engineers than in Sweden. I doubt anybody would say Scandinavian culture pressures people to accept gender roles more than Iranian culture.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 22:43:48


Njord 
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the wage gap is the biggest in scandinavia that's really surprising. In fact so surprising that i think i will check it.....

https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/b919f002-6ebb-4cbd-90c8-c0d128f55459/DSSB-2017-Dec-%203%20Adjusted%20gender%20pay%20gap.pdf

ok, so that turns out to be completely untrue
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/22/2018 22:46:34


Tito 
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3rd generation feminism is aids

i'm more than fine with old school feminism though and i give it my applause
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/23/2018 05:27:00


Bane 
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all this talk of brains and ive yet to see anyone here use theirs
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/23/2018 07:37:49


The Lord
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the wage gap is the biggest in scandinavia that's really surprising. In fact so surprising that i think i will check it.....

https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/b919f002-6ebb-4cbd-90c8-c0d128f55459/DSSB-2017-Dec-%203%20Adjusted%20gender%20pay%20gap.pdf

ok, so that turns out to be completely untrue


I didn't say anything about the wage gap here, it doesn't even exist anywhere except in feminist fantasies. Don't put words into my mouth.

What I was talking about was the gender gap in STEM graduates by country. Here's the data: https://researchdigest.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/screenshot-2018-03-14-08-41-461.png?w=845

The trend line shows a clear inverse correlation between equality of opportunity between the sexes and the percentage of women graduating from STEM fields. Finland, Norway and Sweden very top in gender equality, and having the least female engineers.

all this talk of brains and ive yet to see anyone here use theirs


Thank you for your insightful contribution.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/23/2018 07:54:06


Njord 
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ohh yeah i did misread it. But just so i understand you correctly, you think that the oecd and eurostat are part of a feminist fantasi?
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/23/2018 08:08:15


The Lord
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ohh yeah i did misread it. But just so i understand you correctly, you think that the oecd and eurostat are part of a feminist fantasi?


I won't pretend like I know the situation exactly in every single country but generally speaking the stats that such organizations show don't take various things into account such as hours worked, fields men and women choose, work experience etc. The stats seem to show women get paid less but when you normalize for all these things it generally evens out. Also if women truly were paid less for the same work then wouldn't an entrepreneur just hire women if he gets the same job done for significantly less salary paid?
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/23/2018 09:02:19


Njord 
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you could say that, but such a neoclassical explanation, just make wage gaps impossible by definition. The adjusted wage gap is around 5-6% as far as i have seen. But if you accept a clear neoclassical explanation of wage, women should have a higher wage then men if adjusted given the lower work participation, since the most productive part of the women workforce would be more likely to be on the labor market.

Edited 12/23/2018 11:28:52
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/23/2018 17:27:14


The Lord
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I think that wage gaps, if they exist in the first place, are all bound to disappear given some time as long as there is no political or other force to keep them up. Given how women can get men fired based on rape accusations alone without any evidence but men can't do that to women, I'm pretty sure companies are not pandering to men to keep any wage gaps alive. I think companies are pandering to women. Also, women make 80% of household buying decisions, so companies have all the more reason to give women what they want. You can see this in advertisements that mostly depict men as bumbling idiots and women as solving those idiot men's problems.

I don't agree that because women have lower workforce participation and only the most fit of them are participating, therefore it must follow that the average working woman must be better than the average working man. It could just as well be that women on average are worse workers than men, and less women than men make the cut in the first place. This is pure speculation about work quality and I don't think work quality can be measured very easily, especially if you have to compare completely different occupations like nursing and engineering. How do you compare work quality between those? It's all very hard to quantify.

I'd be curious to see what the adjusted wage gap actually adjusts for. I've seen dozens of different arguments explaining the earnings gap (not wage gap) between men and women. One of them is that men are generally less agreeable, ie they will demand more pay before they are satisfied with the deal. This, for instance, would be very hard to quantify and adjust for in any index.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/23/2018 20:36:34


Njord 
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its ofc all other things being equal.... and ofc you can just assume that women are inherently way worse workers, so that there is no wage gap.....BEACAUSE THERE IS NO WAGEGAP...... you can look also look if there is any stuides..... but you might not like what you find

Edited 12/23/2018 20:44:16
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/24/2018 04:53:23


The Lord
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So you don't know what the "adjusted wage gap" adjusts for? Gotcha. And saying there are sex differences is misogyny? Ok.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/24/2018 08:53:44


Njord 
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i know what most studies adjust for, it's not hard to find, look it up if you want to know.....also im not implying that it is sexist to say that there is gender differences, im implying that you presurposes your conclusion. you your self propose a theory of why there should be no wage gap, then i point to a consequences of it that is contre to what you wanted it to show, and you then just assumes something to not be wrong. That's bad reasoning.
- downvoted post by Rikku
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/26/2018 17:44:17


The Lord
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I looked into what the Eurostat Adjusted Wage Gap adjusts for. As suspected, it only adjusts for some of the known reasons for different earnings such as hours worked, educational level and work experience. But it does not adjust for some other known differences like how dangerous a job is or how dirty it is, or if the woman has been pregnant. Garbage collection or working in oil rigs fits the first mentioned categories and gets quite highly paid even though educational level or work experience needed is minimal. The methodology's Wikipedia page even explicitly states that the unexplained differential in wages should not be interpreted as proof of discrimination (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinder%E2%80%93Oaxaca_decomposition):

The unexplained differential in wages for the same values of explanatory variables should not be interpreted as the amount of the difference in wages due only to discrimination. This is because other explanatory variables not included in the regression (e.g. because they are unobserved) may also account for wage differences.


The other thing you said is false as well. I didn't claim to know what kinds of women are in the workforce, I merely pointed out that neither do you so what you said about women's quality is pure speculation.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/27/2018 21:42:03


Njord 
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it does adjust for occupation....it does also adjust for paternity leave through the "job experience in the current field category".....

it's not pure speculation, if marginalism holds true then woman needs to be less productive than men, if they have equal adjusted pay because of the lower work participation otherwise the neoclassical wage theory is wrong. you propose such a theory, but the women adjusted wage is not higher then the mens, so you must by necessity hold that women are less productive then men.

Edited 12/27/2018 21:43:10
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/28/2018 16:12:50


The Last Kiss
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"Just one example: studies show infant boys prefer to play with cars and infant girls prefer to play with dolls. This is much earlier than any sort of education takes place."

Nonsense. Education starts at or very shortly after birth. Your parents are your first teachers.

"Endless talk about the gender pay gap that doesn't exist."

It absolutely exists. You can potentially make the argument that it is less of an issue than some women make it out to be, but to claim it doesn't exist just reeks of ignorance. Women with the same amount of schooling and experience make roughly 91.6% as much as their male counterparts in the same profession do.

That is post-adjustment, not pre-adjustment. The average working woman makes 79.3% as much as the average working male. The 91.6% is after factoring in profession and training, etc.

Edited 12/28/2018 16:32:28
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/28/2018 18:27:25

Misser
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Leading psychologists step aside, for The Last Kiss has refuted your empirical findings by the strong argument of: not believing in it.

Adjustment for what? If women can do an equally good job to men, while getting considerably less in salary, then why would firms not just hire cohorts of women? Hmmm... I wonder. Maybe there are factors, that should be included in said adjustment, that is not? I am honestly dumbfounded about how retarded the discourse of the gender pay gap debate is. How hard can it actually be to calculate in the factors, that companies value?

Edited 12/28/2018 18:28:29
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/28/2018 21:51:40


Cowboy 
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There's too many factors when it comes to the wage gap, from a man being more likely to negotiate for a higher wage, to men dominating dangerous professions that typically pay higher salaries.

The media definitely overplays this making it sound far worse than it is.

Example > https://www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna941626?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D#aoh=15460334790181&amp_ct=1546033500546&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fbusiness%2Fbusiness-news%2Fgender-pay-gap-worse-thought-study-shows-women-actually-earn-n941626

Now dismissing it as definitely not existing, is a lie in and of itself, but I do not believe that that women are paid less, just because that are women. There are some examples for sure, but among there being laws set to protect from wage discrimination, there is also initiative to mitigate the gap in large businesses, wherever possible.
With all that, we still haven't closed the gap, and chances are a a gap will always exist.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/28/2018 23:24:51


King C******* V 
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I’m glad we have a huge woman community on here who can make their voices heard.
Feminism is a mind virus that makes women bitter: 12/29/2018 10:16:30

Misser
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@Cowboy

Well of course. Men are also more likely to travel, move, and take overtime for their companies. They are less likely to stay home, when their kids are sick, they are less likely to take maternity leave (Which might not be a big part of the debate in the US, for instance, but definitely is in Scandinavia), and they are not working less efficient, when they are having a baby.

Men are generally stronger than women, they are more likely to take high-risk jobs, and men are dominating STEM fields. Name one sport, where the top tier women would win against the top tier men. I'll wait. It can include non-athletic sports, like Chess, e-Sports, or really whatever too. I'll keep waiting.

The debate is often obscured with manipulative numbers, comparing the wage of all women to that of all men. Truth is, that men are overrepresented in highest and lowest paying jobs. Women typically seek out jobs that have to do with caring, which also pay less. We can talk about whether that should actually be the case (as I don't think it should), but as a matter of fact, they do pay less. Women are also worse at negotiating their salary.

I probably forgot some factors I know, and I probably left out factors, that we do not know of yet. But these combined should make everyone understand, why companies make an active choice of hiring a man at a higher cost, instead of hiring a woman. They are not paying more to get the same work done. They are paying more to get more work done. It's not discriminatory, it's business.

I think we should encourage same salary for same work. Feminists think that we should encourage same salary for different work. Feminism is not synonymous with egalitarianism and haven't been for many years.
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