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1840s Americas Map: 8/29/2018 07:23:31


Dragon
Level 56
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So, I decided to work on a map after a very long time, I want to try making a map of all the Americas during the year 1840, I think I could get some help trying to get the borders correctly because I have found some helpful maps from that specific year, (Peru, Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela) but in the case of Bolivia I cant find a map from that year, so it overlaps some regions it shouldnt,because, for example,a region like Amazonia will have many countries claiming the same areas or ambiguos borders because the borders back then werent properly defined, but I dont think it is supposed to overlap a region like modern day Loreto (which back then was under Ecuatorian rule) considering almost all the maps I check agree it was ecuatorian. If you could send me some maps from that year I would appreciate your help a lot, both from North America and South America (right now Im working on South America). Also I would like to hear suggestions, this is my second map (and my first one wasnt great) so I want to get it right this time
1840s Americas Map: 8/29/2018 18:36:33


MrTrolldemort 
Level 58
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Here's a few maps to help you with borders

https://goo.gl/images/1MkgYE for the USA (oregon country here was actually jointly run but the British and Americans and both claimed it
https://goo.gl/images/6aQvou for more in depth analysis

https://goo.gl/images/Joiqjc it's in french but essentially this is a map of the united province of canada formed in 1840, split into canada east and canada west. New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island are the same as their modern equivalents and Newfoundland has a lot less of Labrador.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_Provinces_of_Central_America_(orthographic_projection).svg In 1840 there was the Federal Republic of Central America, which was in the middle of a civil war and seperated into the modern day countries there in 1841. Idk if you wanna make it seperate or all united but here's a map to show you it

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~2982~220122:South-America- here's a map of south america circa 1840 as well

Good luck with the map man :D
1840s Americas Map: 8/29/2018 18:38:48


Nate Kenobi
Level 41
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Dragon, tell Michael to get his shit together.
1840s Americas Map: 8/29/2018 20:25:02


Dragon
Level 56
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Thanks for the maps, just a little detail is that the map stills shows Gran Colombia when it dissolved in 1830, I found a map of Venezuela, Ecuador and Colombia after the dissolution so I guess that fixes it, and Uruguay as part of Argentina but it was already independent (1828), thank lord you found me a map that shows Bolivia-Peu borders because they've been giving me problems haha.
Just a question, who owned Guiana back then? Was it France?
Note: I just did some research, apparently all the Guianas, (French, Dutch and British) kept the same border since 1814, British Guiana had territorial issues with Venezuela, so I will turn the disputed Area into a Disputed Area Bonus, also I found more info about Portuguese Guyana

Edited 8/29/2018 22:16:57
1840s Americas Map: 8/29/2018 23:00:49


MrTrolldemort 
Level 58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OSh0oKQbOA this video also shows the history of the Caribbean if you're adding that too. Just go to the year 1840 to see how the map looks
1840s Americas Map: 8/29/2018 23:32:39


Dragon
Level 56
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Yeah, thanks, I'm adding the Caribbean, they're too small so most of the Antilles are just balls but thanks
1840s Americas Map: 8/29/2018 23:58:23


King C******* V 
Level 58
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Yes more mapsssss
1840s Americas Map: 8/31/2018 00:00:35


MrTrolldemort 
Level 58
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btw do you have a link to the map so far? Just curious to see what you have so far if you need any info on like territory names and stuff.

Also feel free to invite me if you need someone to playtest it. I've done it for many maps in the past and I'm willing to help for this one as well
1840s Americas Map: 8/31/2018 05:56:11


Dragon
Level 56
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right now im just drawing the borders, no territories yet, I like to take my time, also, I noticed I have lot of free horizontal space, i could add some boxes with regions outside America, I planned to add some Antarctica but I would like to hear suggestions first.

This is the map just in case: https://www.warzone.com/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=74497

As I said, no territories for now, only the political map, I will probably add Greenland later
Disputed lands include: Maine and Michigan (UK and US), Texas (Republic of Texas and Mexico) and Guiana (Venezuela and UK), they will be part of both nations bonus.

Also, sure, I will invite you to the tests if you want

Note: Right now the Caribbean, Central America, Colombia, Venezuela and the Guianas have their territories.

Edited 9/1/2018 08:12:06
1840s Americas Map: 9/1/2018 15:29:19


Murk
Level 56
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One thing I'd like to note is the practical (though not nominal) independence of a lot of rebel and native groups around this time.
I see you've gone with the nominal borders of the US, Chile and Mexico, but keep in mind that huge areas were not in any way in the hands of the "official" government.
In the latter half of the 19th century there were still dozens of very costly wars between natives and "civilized" nations.
This is the time of the Comanche-Mexico war, the Seminole Wars, Mapuche-Chilean wars. This is fifty years *before* the Sioux manage to give the US army serious trouble, so do not underestimate how relevant these native groups still were at this time.

It's up to you if you want to do something with it - going with nominal borders (even if disputed) is a valid choice, but putting in some native territories could be fun as well.
1840s Americas Map: 9/1/2018 18:30:57


Dragon
Level 56
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Sure, I will put some natives, I mean, Oregon, Patagonia and North Canada Islands are controlled by natives but I could add some more, I would like to hear suggestions regarding that, should I make them their own bonus inside the nation's nominal borders or a completely different "nation" and just add a bonus named for example Mexico (Nominal Borders) that includes them? If you have something else on mind I would like to hear your ideas.

I'm also planning to add some in Greenland and Western Canada, at that time most of UK's control over Canada was nominal, specially to the West. I would appreciate if you could send me some maps that show indigenous groups so I can add them
1840s Americas Map: 9/2/2018 16:26:30


MrTrolldemort 
Level 58
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what I would do as put some of the territory based on these native areas and maybe make them it's own bonus and have the claimed areas as a superbonus
1840s Americas Map: 9/2/2018 21:09:37


zxctycxz [Ollie Bye] 
Level 57
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This shows the counties within the US states as of 1840. I'd use it:



Edited 9/2/2018 21:11:50
1840s Americas Map: 9/2/2018 23:57:44


Dragon
Level 56
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Thanks, I will use it to map USA and Texas when I get to them, right now im doing South America, if you happen to check the map and have better suggestions for the name of some territories let me know because there are some areas im unsure about (specially around the Amazonas)
Also I found this map of north America showing the areas under actual control of the nations and some indigenous groups, is it accurate?

https://omniatlas.com/maps/northamerica/18400808/plain/

I added the Mapuche (south Argentina and Chile) the Amazonians (Brazil, some Peru, Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela) and Chaco (Bolivia) as indigenous groups. Mapuche will be their own bonus, same with Chaco, the Amazonians will have their bonus in Brazil but will need the lands in the rest of the nations to get the superbonus, I already uploaded the map showing how they would look (Chaco is already mapped and some Amazonians too since I already did Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Peru, if what Im doing isnt what you expected let me know so I can hear suggestions

Edited 9/3/2018 06:14:07
1840s Americas Map: 9/3/2018 06:32:22


Murk
Level 56
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Is looking good!
1840s Americas Map: 9/3/2018 06:46:39


Nate Kenobi
Level 41
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This websites maps are sorely lacking in native americans
1840s Americas Map: 9/3/2018 17:18:39


zxctycxz [Ollie Bye] 
Level 57
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This should be useful for South America:

1840s Americas Map: 9/3/2018 23:47:16


Dragon
Level 56
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Ollie, regarding the South America map, there's something I'm not sure if I should add because it would be a mess but you tell me, the Map shows Acre as a disputed area, in my map it appears as part of the Amazonians but claimed by Brazil, however if I do it according to the map I should add it as claimed by: Brazil, Bolivia and Peru while controlled by Amazonians, should I?
1840s Americas Map: 9/4/2018 01:42:06


Wulfhere
Level 48
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Pen tool is recommended
1840s Americas Map: 9/4/2018 20:43:12


zxctycxz [Ollie Bye] 
Level 57
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I'd show it as either part of Bolivia, or claimed by it. I don't think Brazil had any practical claim to it in 1840.
1840s Americas Map: 9/4/2018 21:01:45


Dragon
Level 56
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I read that it ended up as part of Bolivia after the dissolution of the Peru-Bolivian Confederation but Brazil integrated it to its territory taking advantage of the dissolution of the confederation but idk
1840s Americas Map: 9/4/2018 21:54:27


Wulfhere
Level 48
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The border between Brazil and Bolivia was delimited by the Treaty of Ayacucho. The province of Acre, a territory of about five times the size of Belgium, belonged to Bolivia. Embedded in the heart of South America, Acre aroused little interest for its inaccessibility and apparent lack of commercial value. Its population was composed of a small number of Indians without national identity and a handful of Brazilians and Bolivians.

When the price of rubber rose significantly in the late 19th century about 18,000 adventurers and settlers, most from Brazil, went to Acre to exploit the rubber trees. Practically there were no roads, so that the main means of transport were some river steamers, canoes and rafts.
1840s Americas Map: 9/4/2018 22:04:14


Dragon
Level 56
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Alright, I will give Bolivia the cores instead of Brazil, but it'll be controlled by Amazonians
1840s Americas Map: 9/6/2018 08:15:44


Dragon
Level 56
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So Im starting to map some indigenous lands (The Mapuche) but Im not sure what to do with the names, the Mapuche divide their lands in East, North, West and South, so I would only have 4 territory names if I used the names they used, alternatively I could use the names given by the Argentine and the Chileans but Im not sure, I wanted to use the indigenous names but it seems like it wont be possible
1840s Americas Map: 9/6/2018 12:43:55


Wulfhere
Level 48
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If the Mapuche had names for rivers you could use those otherwise I would use the Spanish names
1840s Americas Map: 9/6/2018 14:44:27


Zephyrum
Level 60
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I added the Mapuche (south Argentina and Chile) the Amazonians (Brazil, some Peru, Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela) and Chaco (Bolivia) as indigenous groups. Mapuche will be their own bonus, same with Chaco, the Amazonians will have their bonus in Brazil but will need the lands in the rest of the nations to get the superbonus, I already uploaded the map showing how they would look (Chaco is already mapped and some Amazonians too since I already did Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Peru, if what Im doing isnt what you expected let me know so I can hear suggestions


Local indigenous tribal groups, they were not remotely unified in any way that resembles a nation, and often fought amongst themselves. It's like claiming the berbers had full control of the entire Sahara. While the government of Brazil did not apply pressure on the region (not sure about other governments), whenever there was something of interest in the general vicinity of those tribes, they'd get pushed around. Brazil had de facto control of those regions, undoubtly. Also, pretty much the entire of the Amazon river's basin was patrolled semi-frequently by the government.

Alright, I will give Bolivia the cores instead of Brazil, but it'll be controlled by Amazonians


It belonged to Peru until the dissolution of Peru-Bolívia, when it passed on to Bolívia. From there on it was controlled by them, but with little policing due to lack of resources or accessibility. By 1840, it should be owned and controlled by Bolivia, at most with Peru laying some very dubious claims to it.

If I may suggest, Acre should be part of Bolivia, the Amazon river basin should be made into a string of territories, and the inner amazon should really be empty space, with the background colored after the same color of the country superbonuses, being completely impassable by troops.

Here's an image of the basin and it's bigger subsidiaries: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Amazon_river_basin.png/220px-Amazon_river_basin.png

Helpful reference by EmperorTigerstar: https://youtu.be/UULp33MNNNE?t=2m56s
Imperial Provinces of Brazil in 1822 (remained the same in 1840, aside from the Ragamuffin rebellion) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Brazil_%281822%29.svg/1024px-Brazil_%281822%29.svg.png
More on the Riograndense Republic (rebelled in 1835, ended in 1845, should control the state of Rio Grande but largely identified as rebels and claimed by Brazil): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragamuffin_War
1840s Americas Map: 9/7/2018 00:35:40


Dragon
Level 56
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Well, being honest I'm not a fan of adding areas inaccessible by armies, I like the idea of mapping the whole thing, if you have any ideas about that I would like to hear them.
And about the indigenous groups I never referred to them as a nation, they're just groups that even if they fought between themselves, were present on areas that even if they were claimed by other nations, they couldn't control because of the indigenous people and had to make wars to get control. I also want to add the indigenous groups because a lot of people seem to want that because there are no maps (or few maps) out there that take them into consideration (at least that I know of), so I think it's a good idea to add them, after all I'm adding a Core bonus for the nations that have claims on areas with the presence of indigenous groups, for example Brazil will have a core on the Amazonas, Bolivia will have cores on Chaco and Great Acre, because those are territories that were claimed by them but not necessarily had a complete control

I'll also add the Riograndense Republic that will definitely happen, about Acre as I said I planned to make it controlled by Amazonians but give the cores to Bolivia, but I could make it completely controlled by Bolivia if everyone wants that, about the Amazon basin I think I will give its control to Brazil since I saw a map that showed it as controlled by Brazilians instead of indigenous groups but I would like to hear suggestions

Edited 9/7/2018 00:39:34
1840s Americas Map: 9/19/2018 23:27:25


Dragon
Level 56
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Um, just a simple question regarding the background..
Black, Blue Water or Old Map (Like Geopolitics 1900 or Seven Years War)
1840s Americas Map: 9/19/2018 23:58:15


RainB00ts
Level 37
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I prefer black or gray; if it's a real neutral blue that works but don't get carried away with the blue. It's an eyesore.
1840s Americas Map: 9/20/2018 00:52:44


MrTrolldemort 
Level 58
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I personally like the old style of black but do whichever you think looks more appealing to your eye
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