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Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 04:57:11

Fizzer 
Level 59

Warzone Creator
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Let's use this thread to talk about the templates that are up for vote in Quickmatch!

At the time of this post, here's the current 40 templates:

                    TemplateName                    | Rank | Num Votes
----------------------------------------------------+------+---------------
 Small Earth 1v1 Auto Dist                          |    1 |              0
 Small Earth 1 wasteland                            |    2 |              0
 Four Castles FFA Commerce                          |    3 |              0
 Strategic 1v1                                      |    4 |              0
 MME Commanders LD No Cards                         |    5 |              0
 Strategic 2v2                                      |    6 |              0
 Multi-Attack MME Light Fog LD                      |    7 |              0
 Auto-Imp.Rom.- LD & Light fog                      |    8 |             19
 French Brawl                                       |    9 |             15
 Master Mania 1v1                                   |   10 |             14
 scrabble no base income                            |   11 |             14
 Biomes of Americas 1 v 1                           |   12 |             14
 Elitist Africa 1v1 NLC                             |   13 |             13
 Strat ME                                           |   14 |             12
 Georgia Army Cap                                   |   15 |             11
 Strat 1v1 with swapped picks                       |   16 |             11
 Battle Islands V                                   |   17 |             10
 British Raj                                        |   18 |             10
 Phobia 1v1                                         |   19 |             10
 Guiroma                                            |   20 |              9
 Rise of Rome 1v1 MultiDay                          |   21 |              9
 China 1v1                                          |   22 |              8
 East Asia and Oceania                              |   23 |              8
 Quick Risk                                         |   24 |              8
 Warrior Duel - RT random starts w/ Commander       |   25 |              8
 Red Dead Redemption                                |   26 |              8
 Strategic Greece                                   |   27 |              7
 Dice, LF + Bombs                                   |   28 |              7
 Phobia 1v1 SR                                      |   29 |              7
 Europe 3v3                                         |   30 |              6
 Laketown 1v1                                       |   31 |              6
 EarthSea 1v1                                       |   32 |              6
 Volcano Island 1v1                                 |   33 |              6
 Treasure Map 1v1                                   |   34 |              5
 Scottish Islands 1v1 Pure Skill                    |   35 |              5
 Zapad17                                            |   36 |              5
 KrazyKraig's Risk                                  |   37 |              5
 Northern Vanatu Islands 1v1                        |   38 |              8
 Deployment Limit Rise of Rome                      |   39 |              4
 Trophy of alexclusive - Concordia                  |   40 |              4


I notice we just passed a milestone. The 40th template has 4 votes. Since each player can give a maximum of 3 votes to a template, and quickmatch has a limit of 40 templates, this means for the first time it's no longer possible for a template to be playable with a single person voting on it. It takes two people voting on a template to get it in. This is a good thing, as it keeps out templates that have lesser demand.

Edited 1/17/2018 04:58:25
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 05:16:03


master of desaster 
Level 65
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At this point, i'm considering 15 out of 40 templates as playworthy. What i'm curious about is, if ffas and teamgames have even a justification to be there. For example i didn't get one single europe 3vs3 game since i unlocked it. Does it even make sense to let such a template block a place of a potential good 1vs1 template which will be occasionaly played?

My biggest concern is that we get a maximum of 10 votes. If the alts don't get threaten well, they will have an huge impact on this voting system since it's much easier in the beginning to get votes.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 08:45:43


Buns157 
Level 68
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The unique bonus systems of americas and Africa are unlocked too soon. I get it that it's public voting but whenever I play against a new player on them it's no fun since they don't have a clue.

Especially when they get stuck on 0 income, it can't be good to make them stick around on wz either
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 08:58:46

Fizzer 
Level 59

Warzone Creator
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The unique bonus systems of americas and Africa are unlocked too soon. I get it that it's public voting but whenever I play against a new player on them it's no fun since they don't have a clue.

Yes, I agree. I hope that as more people get votes they drop down. I suspect some people vote them up just to be able to exploit those who don't understand it for free wins, which is unfortunate.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 09:03:10

Nemo
Level 63
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At the beginning there were not much games played. Now voting should become proportional, i.e. a vote every 100 games.

Also would be good some moderation (revision) of templates, as some are mistakes. E.g. Rise of Rome 1v1 MultiDay has a boot time of 3 minutes + 5 min bank. Its clearly nor multi day...
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 09:03:53


krunx 
Level 62
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My opinion:
TemplateName
Small Earth 1v1 Auto Dist out
Small Earth 1 wasteland out
Four Castles FFA Commerce out
Strategic 1v1 in
MME Commanders LD No Cards in
Strategic 2v2 in
Multi-Attack MME Light Fog LD in
Auto-Imp.Rom.- LD & Light fog out
French Brawl in
Master Mania 1v1 in
scrabble no base income out
Biomes of Americas 1 v 1 in
Elitist Africa 1v1 NLC in
Strat ME in
Georgia Army Cap in
Strat 1v1 with swapped picks in
Battle Islands V in
British Raj in
Phobia 1v1 in
Guiroma in
Rise of Rome 1v1 MultiDay out
China 1v1 in
East Asia and Oceania in
Quick Risk out
Warrior Duel - RT random starts w/ Commander out
Red Dead Redemption in
Strategic Greece in
Dice, LF + Bombs out
Phobia 1v1 SR in
Europe 3v3 in
Laketown 1v1 in
EarthSea 1v1 in
Volcano Island 1v1 in
Treasure Map 1v1 in
Scottish Islands 1v1 Pure Skill no clue
Zapad17 no clue
KrazyKraig's Risk no clue
Northern Vanatu Islands 1v1 no clue
Deployment Limit Rise of Rome no clue
Trophy of alexclusive - Concordia in



The first 3 templates are just bad. They don't help new players and lead them into a wrong direction. In addition in, all of these templates the luck factor is way too high.

I really dislike, that some players use ALTs to upvote their own templates.

Templates like:
scrabble no base income
Warrior Duel - RT random starts w/ Commander
Dice, LF + Bombs

Clearly don't belong into QM.

The 2v2 and 3v3 games highly depend on your team mates. You need a better match making algorithm for that.

Edited 1/17/2018 09:05:20
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 09:29:06


AWESOMEGUY 
Level 63
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Keep all voted templates. If the template is garbage, don't check it.

For fixed templates, move MME first. It's the 1v1 ladder template and is relatively straightforward (assuming you structured fixed templates to progress in complexity as it appears to be) for new players. Most importanly, other players won't quit because they have pointless templates such as Small Earth (Roulette) to go through.

Alts will be/are problematic. If anything, the best way to preserve QM is to tighten restrictions on how alts play/vote on templates.

As krunx said, if there is enough interest in in team-game QM then a separate algorithm should be placed to allocate games more efficiently. Otherwise, just ban those templates. FFA is in the same boat, particularly utilizing the settings it currently does.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 10:12:11


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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can't agree with moving MME first - MME is more complex, so it's better to get familiar with WL on simplier template.
Maybe just being forced to won 40 games on it (or 60 if you don't want to play FFA) is a bit too much. Also FFA with commerce could be moved lower, at least behind 1v1 ladder.


Templates like:
scrabble no base income
Warrior Duel - RT random starts w/ Commander
Dice, LF + Bombs

Clearly don't belong into QM.

Why so? Because they differ so much? But then you could tell the same about all thouse INSS templates:P


Rise of Rome 1v1 MultiDay has a boot time of 3 minutes + 5 min bank. Its clearly nor multi day...


Yeah, that's my mistake:P. But take in mind it depends whether you play MD or RT.
(Un)fortunately, template name it's not showing in a game name (that would be helpful though:P), so people shouldn't get confused.

Also agree with alt problem.
I'm curious about opinion about losing votes after defined period. Ie. you get votes only from wins in last 6 months. That seems logical, because there is no reason why someone who played 2 years ago and is not playing anymore should influence QM templates. But it can also be a bit annoying and creates decision problem with 'which vote remove first'. Also it's clearly not full solution to alt problem, but certainly discourage to use them.

Additional questions to Fizzer:
- can non-members get modded template from QM? i guess not, but what happen when they are about to unlock such?

Additional additional question to Fizzer:
- https://www.warzone.com/Forum/293451-math-derive-function-based-inputsoutputs - the DanWL's question in this thread.

Additional additional additional question to Fizzer:
- any chance to get veto percentage for those templates?

Edited 1/17/2018 10:19:44
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 11:09:55

Nemo
Level 63
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I unlocked member only templates, just can not 'tick' them to be playable.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 11:10:22


krunx 
Level 62
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Templates like:
scrabble no base income
Warrior Duel - RT random starts w/ Commander
Dice, LF + Bombs

Clearly don't belong into QM.

Why so? Because they differ so much? But then you could tell the same about all thouse INSS templates:P


Dice, LF + Bombs, is a lotto template, if you ask me

I ask back: Did you veto these templates?




I can live having these voted templates in QM, if ALTs aren't allowed to vote!

The fixed templates are simply a bad choice. Esp. the first 3 ones. It is okay to have them in, but not fixed and that high. They are not good enough for that and they misslead new users.

For example some get confused by the change from 1 untit to 2 units per neutral. As 2 is standard in most of the templates, it is more logical to start with these settings.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/17/2018 11:59:23


Buns157 
Level 68
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Fiz had a few premade templates on kongregate which sucked players in.

Small earth 3 player FFA was fun and people liked it. Auto warlords with 2 picks each.

Ror 3v3 was the main one though, that should be the last one in the initial fixed ones
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/18/2018 14:43:25

Jaymer
Level 57
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The unique bonus systems of americas and Africa are unlocked too soon. I get it that it's public voting but whenever I play against a new player on them it's no fun since they don't have a clue.
--
Yes, I agree. I hope that as more people get votes they drop down. I suspect some people vote them up just to be able to exploit those who don't understand it for free wins, which is unfortunate.


I'm not sure this is true. I think by the time you get through the fixed templates, you have a basic understanding of the game. After that, the only way to learn Biomes and Africa is to play them. A lot of people are gonna be terrible the first time they play them, but that's true no matter when their first time is, doesn't matter how many wins they have on templates without that type of bonus system. I'm terrible at the pick-for-your-opponent template, and that's why it has my vote. Gotta play it to learn it.

But this does remind me of one observation on the voting system: The people who have the most votes need them the least, because they already have a lot of templates to choose from. Experienced players can play almost any template they want, but newer players can only play the ones the experienced players have voted for the most. Not sure if this is a problem. Do we want newer players to have to play the templates that are most popular with experienced players? Maybe there's a better way to do it?
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/18/2018 16:26:11

neal
Level 59
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Templates like:
scrabble no base income
Warrior Duel - RT random starts w/ Commander
Dice, LF + Bombs

Clearly don't belong into QM.


Then what does belong into quickmatch in your opinion? I would never play these templates personally because its not the kind of game i like to play but obviously there are people who do like to play such templates.
What some people seem to forget despite the ranking system is that quickmatch is not supposed to be a competitive ladder. The ladders are there for people who like to play strategic games and compare their skill to other players. Quickmatch is not just for the strategic community, its for the whole community. So if people vote for templates like the above mentioned that means there is an audience in the community that wants to play such games.

Yes, I agree. I hope that as more people get votes they drop down. I suspect some people vote them up just to be able to exploit those who don't understand it for free wins, which is unfortunate.


I am not sure if that is true. Most people who voted on those templates did it because they really like the innovative bonus system. Most games i played on those templates were against rather good players because most unexperienced players uncheck it. That you get some ''free wins'' is true but i can say that about any template if i get paired with an unexperienced player. I agree with Jaymer that these kind of templates can only be learned by playing them and if you dont want to learn them you can just uncheck them.

Most people commenting on these topics are part of the strategic community and therefore the opinion here is very biased.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/18/2018 18:20:27


linberson 
Level 61
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+1 Neal on both arguments.

Solution: better matchmaking
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/18/2018 18:26:05


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Not easy to have a better matchmaking for realtime i guess. The only thing that annoys me about matchmaking is that i get to play the same opponent 10 times on the same template in a row.

+1 on adding ffas and teamgames to a seperate qm or just remove them.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/23/2018 01:38:17


machine-washed bliss
Level 60
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Why not have 100s of templates so you can keep unlocking new ones?
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/24/2018 14:53:20


Muli 
Level 62
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Are Quickmatch games supposed to respect vacations or no?

The current situation where some templates respect vacations and others don't is a bit confusing.
Quickmatch templates discussion: 1/24/2018 15:44:02


Tito 
Level 56
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I got here a bit late but i agree with almost everything krunx said

Its difficult to please two different player bases and QM has a big influence on both of them

While vetoing works for most people, right now there's people vetoing anything bar SE 1 wasteland, which is a worse, less strategic version of an already straight forward template

A good way to deal with this is leading people into actually learning a bit more while still offering straight forward templates. A new player is prone to struggle when he goes from the QM small earth template for the strat 1v1 template; this will hinder that player's potential of reaching the infinity of other fun settings and templates

Because of its own nature QM should have a better template for beginners, even if its still small earth 1 wasteland. The amount of people that has 200-400 rating and still attacks 2 with 2 is outrageous. Im speaking for myself but i see that very often in QM.
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