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Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 05:59:29


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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Thank you to everyone who contributed to the thread where potential rules were proposed (https://www.warzone.com/Forum/276576-potential-new-official-ladder-rules). There was a lot of good discussion and I'm happy to announce that we can unveil the official rules of the ladders. Since the reception of the rules was mostly positive the rules are very similar to what was proposed in the previous thread. There are a few changes that take into account some of the biggest concerns. The rules have also been added to the wiki pages for the respective ladders.

These rules will go into effect immediately unless otherwise stipulated.



1.) A player can't start playing on the 1v1 ladder with an account if they have another account with unexpired games. Games expire after 5 months. Violations will be punished with a warning and then a suspension.

2.) A player may only play on the Seasonal Ladder with one account per season. Violations will be punished with a suspension on all implicated accounts.

3.) A player may not play on the Real Time ladder with an account if they have another account which is currently ranked. Accounts become unranked after 3 days of inactivity on the ladder. Violations will be punished with a warning and then a suspension.

4.) A player may only play on a team ladder if there is no team consisting of the same players (not accounts) with unexpired games. They may join the ladder on a new team if at least one of their teammates is a new different player or if one or more of the players on the old team is not on the new team. Essentially, if the only difference between two teams is that a player has been replaced by an alt of the same player, then it is not considered to be a different team. Violations will be punished with a warning and then a suspension.

5.) Since the community isn't able to agree on what constitutes stalling, there won't be any enforcement of rules against stalling.

6.) Manipulation of the force-finish in the Seasonal Ladder is not allowed, and the use of vacations towards the end of a season leading to force-finish will be considered especially suspicious. Violations will be punished with a suspension. Fizzer retains the right modify results in egregious cases as has been done in the past possibly resulting in the loss of games and/or trophies.

7.) A player may not have two ladder teams ranked at the same time in any ladder.

In addition, each season of the Seasonal Ladder will be extended from 60 days to 75 days since the next season rarely starts immediately, in order to cut down on force-finishes unless there are reasonable objections.


Rules 2, 3, and 6 will go into effect immediately. There will be a grace period of 5 months before Rules 1 and 4 are enforced in order to allow all games that are unexpired at this time to expire.

Edit:
It was brought to my attention that I didn't cover the case where a player is playing a team ladder with two different sets of teammates at the same time. You can't have two accounts ranked at the same time in any ladder.

Edited 12/6/2017 16:40:31
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 06:06:26


Cowboy 
Level 57
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There will be a grace period of 5 months before Rules 1 and 4 are enforced in order to allow all games that are unexpired at this time to expire.


Curious. I get why the grace period is here, but what if someone plays on multiple accounts during that grace period. Do I just wait till report them until after rules come into effect?
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 06:12:06


ZeroBlindDragon
Level 58
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Love it. Great job!
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 06:12:49


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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Curious. I get why the grace period is here, but what if someone plays on multiple accounts during that grace period. Do I just wait till report them until after rules come into effect?


If they have unexpired games that started after the rules went into effect on multiple accounts you should report them. The grace period is just so that games played before the rules were official aren't counted.

Edited 12/6/2017 06:14:36
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 06:27:45


Cowboy 
Level 57
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Thanks for clarification.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 06:37:05


Edge 
Level 61
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Great work guys!

Unfortunately stalling won't be punished. Points 5 and 6 could be a little bit contradictory since the season can be manipulated by stalling.

Will that be punished then?
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 06:54:18


knyte 
Level 58
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You know how, for stuff like insider trading where it's kind of a pain to prove if it really was/wasn't a coincidence, companies have cover-your-ass systems in place? Trading only during specified windows, reporting stuff in advance, etc. Stuff to lower workload on both ends- if you follow the system, you won't get in trouble + if you're enforcing the rules, you don't need to look too closely at people who follow the system. And if someone's following the system but tries to break the rules, you get them instantly.

I think those would help enforce some of these, especially the ones involving ladder abuse. E.g., for vacation abuse on the Seasonal Ladder it would be nice to have an established "okay if you plan on taking a vacation, you have to start it during this time and it has to be at least X days long" period.

Edited 12/6/2017 06:55:48
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 10:43:29


Platinum
Level 60
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Very disappointed that the definition of stalling couldn't be determined. Though, Very happy with the progress being made to make the ladders a fairer and competitive place.

It's only in the community interest to have some type of definition so the type of "Alhazi" stalling can at the very least be punished and prevented.

Something is better than nothing to avoid the extreme and clearly obvious cases of stalling.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 11:16:46


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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Technical question - how could i know that what Beren wrote is a real thing. I could create new thread and edit wiki aswell.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 11:36:43


Njord 
Level 61
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because the eye of the fizzer is allways wacthing

Edited 12/6/2017 11:36:55
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 15:19:28

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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We can test that theory right now Krzystof.

9 AlturoSensei 2082
16 Equivoque 2030

Those accounts are simultaneously ranked on the 1v1 ladder, and are the same player.


I bet neither one gets suspended.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 15:29:16


knyte 
Level 58
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I think you still gotta wait 5 months for that experiment, Nauzh

Edited 12/6/2017 15:29:24
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 15:33:53

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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"If they have unexpired games that started after the rules went into effect on multiple accounts you should report them. The grace period is just so that games played before the rules were official aren't counted. "

Nah, couple days at most according to that.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 15:45:50


Buns157 
Level 67
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All I got from this is that I'm free to stall on all the ladders now :D
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 18:17:14


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 61
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Is a ladder team of two accounts/one player still permissable?
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 18:47:40


Batman
Level 55
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We can test that theory right now Krzystof.

9 AlturoSensei 2082
16 Equivoque 2030

Those accounts are simultaneously ranked on the 1v1 ladder, and are the same player.


I bet neither one gets suspended.


hmmm, not sure if they're the same player-since there are lot of players with Italian flag on ladder, who play only 1v1 (too much games in short time)-but how to say those two are the same?
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 19:45:06


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Yes aura, it's just not allowed for me to for example play with alt A and alt B and then switch to alt A and alt C. If i want to start a new run it has to be at least with one other player which isn't myself.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 20:16:25


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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use of vacations towards the end of a season leading to force-finish will be considered especially suspicious. Violations will be punished with a suspension. Fizzer retains the right modify results in egregious cases as has been done in the past possibly resulting in the loss of games and/or trophies.
And here we are again, what on earth means "end of a season"? Is it a 5-days, a week, 10 days, 2 weeks. One may consider everything suspicious. And now we come to conclusion that "violation will be punished with a suspension", but we will not tell if what is regarded as "end of a season".

It is best to have no rules, rather than bad rules. Isnt vacation meant to be as worst-case scenario, when one needs to be away for longer period. Its not just about planned vacation. Just disable vacation on ladder games and make it known to everyone. Having exception rule for every single case devalues vacation rule as a whole.

Have not paid attention to forum, but it seems somehow people came to senses and realized there is no such thing as stalling. If game allows you to make a move within 3-days, than it is ones choice and right to do it when he chooses to.

Funny to see how people think that now the new rules will deter alt-accounts on ladder. I think there were more cases with no direct action taken against those who were revealed.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 22:02:34

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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They're definitely the same player.

Anyone arguing otherwise is trolling or a complete retard.

They both grinded autogames at a rate of 50+ games a day to play on the 1v1 ladder as soon as possible. The second account was made right after the first one got ranked on the 1v1 ladder because he wasn't happy with the rank he got the first time. They're the same flag, they have near identical winrates, same playstyle.

"Have not paid attention to forum, but it seems somehow people came to senses and realized there is no such thing as stalling."

Right.

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=6355351

Playing like that is perfectly acceptable.

Edited 12/6/2017 22:04:16
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/6/2017 23:35:10


Pardon99
Level 62
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They both grinded autogames at a rate of 50+ games a day to play on the 1v1 ladder as soon as possible. The second account was made right after the first one got ranked on the 1v1 ladder because he wasn't happy with the rank he got the first time. They're the same flag, they have near identical winrates, same playstyle.


Haha this makes it sound like you're the player.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 04:11:26

FiveStarGeneral
Level 54
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Hi I just started playing ladder recently and I personally found it really frustrating when my opponents would make a bunch of moves in one same day and then suddenly need to take 2 days 20+ hours after something bad happens. What irks me even more is that over those 3 day periods, they will start and end entire games that are 10-20 moves long while completely ignoring mine, though I have not been unfortunate enough yet (I think) to encounter what Mr. Nauzhror posted.

I don't know if this is possible or even a good idea, but I was wondering if there could perhaps be a way to make players play a move in all of the games where they have moves pending before they can play a move once more in another game. For example, let's say I have games A, B, C and make a move in A and B. Then, my opponents also move in A and B and so it is my turn again in A and B. However, I haven't moved in C yet so I can't submit my next move in A and B until I move in C.

(Sorry if this idea is scrub af lol)

Edited 12/7/2017 04:11:52
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 04:24:36


knyte 
Level 58
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@FiveStarGeneral: What you're describing is what some would term "stalling" (the longer they can delay their loss to you, the higher their peak rating gets- so people do this a lot). Like you can see in the parent post, it's a bit of a controversial topic that people couldn't agree on how to deal with.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 04:35:44


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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Can we get these put somewhere other than the forum?
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 04:35:54

FiveStarGeneral
Level 54
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Yeah I know I just tried to come up with an idea that I thought might prevent stalling without relying on judges or something and wouldn't decrease the max allowed time. I don't know if it's even possible though :/. Probably would have to involve some tweaks to the interface and I have no clue what kind of work that would entail.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 06:08:36


KKND
Level 59
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Can we get this from Fizzer? And it will be official
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 08:37:29


Min34 
Level 60
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Good to see the the rules are finally here. :D

Since the community isn't able to agree on what constitutes stalling, there won't be any enforcement of rules against stalling.

Shame to hear this. Really wish that you could've decided on some rules against stalling. To me it seemed that a large part of the community did agree? I could be wrong though. In the end not everybody has to agree with a rule (Im certain all the other rules have players who dont agree with them).



In addition, each season of the Seasonal Ladder will be extended from 60 days to 75 days since the next season rarely starts immediately, in order to cut down on force-finishes unless there are reasonable objections.

Will that come with the promise that the new season now will start right after the previous one has finished?



how could i know that what Beren wrote is a real thing. I could create new thread and edit wiki aswell.

Fizzer has already confirmed Beren is doing this with his permission, no?



And here we are again, what on earth means "end of a season"? Is it a 5-days, a week, 10 days, 2 weeks. One may consider everything suspicious. And now we come to conclusion that "violation will be punished with a suspension", but we will not tell if what is regarded as "end of a season".

For all we know Beren does have a precise number of days. It he does he might not want to make them public to avoid players trying to manipulate those to the max.



It is best to have no rules, rather than bad rules

Fortunately these are all perfectly fine.



Have not paid attention to forum, but it seems somehow people came to senses and realized there is no such thing as stalling. If game allows you to make a move within 3-days, than it is ones choice and right to do it when he chooses to.

No, thats not the case at all. Most people I've seen talking about this think its a shame nothing will be done about stalling. We realise that stalling might be difficult to determine, but that doesnt mean there is no such thing as stalling. You seem to be confusing abusing the system to gain unfair advantages with using the system as its meant to.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 13:44:18

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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"They both grinded autogames at a rate of 50+ games a day to play on the 1v1 ladder as soon as possible. The second account was made right after the first one got ranked on the 1v1 ladder because he wasn't happy with the rank he got the first time. They're the same flag, they have near identical winrates, same playstyle."

He's actually up to 4 accounts by now.

21 new! SL7APA 1993
53 new! KneelForZod 1839

Those are him too. He's simultaneously ranked 4 times.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 16:14:31


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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Can we get these put somewhere other than the forum?


They are also in the wiki. I've talked with Fizzer about getting them put on the ladder pages, but he's busy with the rollout of the new site for now.

Regarding stalling, I have an idea for how to combat it, but it needs some more testing before anything comes of it, and I didn't want to delay these other rules any longer.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 16:44:00

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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34 new! DarkLordRising 1907

My bad, he has 5 accounts ranked now.
Official Ladder Rules Now In Effect: 12/7/2017 16:45:23


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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there could be special achievement like "Take 5 spots in TOP20 at the same time" :D

Edited 12/7/2017 16:46:11
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