@Wulfhere

You gotta read better what I wrote, assuming stuff I said out of nowhere is pretty chill.

For the military coup, like I said what prevents it from happening in America and not in let's say, the Philippines, is not because of guns, but because of your solid democratic bases, the military will never move on against the country, at least not now, because they don't see any reason to do that. You talked about human morality, not killing your fellow countryman, but that's exactly what every fucking civil war is about, most of the time things just get out of hand. I doubt the Syrian Rebels wanted so bad their freedom as to accept 500k people to die for nothing, or that Assad's soldiers wanted to kill Syrians left and right. It just escalated there.

I never said that attacks just happened in America, as a matter of fact I was pointing out that it happens over and over in America, while it's more of a punctual thing in Europe. Here we get shocked when someone starts shooting people on the streets. Go look at the list I posted, do you remember of shooting #218 of the year? A former doctor shoots doctors, killing 2 and wounding 6. Or #86 when a husband killed his wife and two girls. Those probably didn't even go in the news, look up that list, there's a lot like these. NO FUCKING WAY, and really, NO FUCKING WAY, something like that happens in France and we don't talk about it for months. That's the difference.

Also, you said I was retarded because I didn't consider the Paris shootings and the Nice truck attacks, as a matter of fact, you are so ignorant as to know that in both using guns against the terrorists didn't mean shiet. For the Paris shootings, the biggest kill count was in the Bataclan, a night club, where firearms (and any arms as a matter of fact) are prohibited, and even if they weren't, have you ever tried to shoot someone in a dark, loud, and full room? Chances are you're gonna kill more innocents than terrorists. For the Nice attack, we had plenty of soldiers and policemen shooting at the truck, that didn't matter because of how physics work (gotta study at some point), even if they killed him in the first second he started to run over people, momentum + weight in the accelerator would have lead out probably to the same effect.

Finally, you assumed I was talking about gun control as the solution for your problems, as a matter of fact I don't believe in magic wands that will solve the gun issue called gun control, that's as much stupid lobby populism as believing that the government will take over if americans aren't allowed to buy silencers. Really, Europe has tons of guns itself, the Swiss are the third most armed in the world, France doesn't lag too much behind and is 10-11ish, and it's not like there's mass shootings every day in either of these countries.

There is solutions for the gun violence problem in America, I won't claim to know the answer for it. But it really sounds like everytime there's a tragedy, members of congress pull out their ideologies all over the media, and just dodge the responsability of doing something that could make life safer for americans.

Edited 10/5/2017 22:49:30

>the holocaust
>real

@Pooh

(1) Like I said, that gun preventing government from taking over had some sense in the past when you had some sort of equality of force between the potentially repressive means of the state and the citizens, which is not the case anymore.

(2) People that say that Trump is a racist wanting to kill Puerto Ricans are fairly stupid in my opinion. Up to this point we've only seen demagogue rethoric from Trump which I believe is only targeted to appeal to his base. As far as I know, Trump was as liberal as one could be just a few years ago, he flip floped on this issue like many others. I fear more the actions motivated by his rethoric, as a president's word often has more weight than his actions as for say.

If you think that armed insurgents can't provide effective resistance against the US military, I ask you why are we still in Afghanistan.

Because you are fucking dumb! Obviously the objective of the American government has never been to clean out insurgents or to leave Afghanistan at any point, you should have never entered that shithole in the first place.

Armed insurgents don't provide effective resistance against the US military at all, as far as I know, if America wanted to wipe out Afghanistan tomorow it could with the push of a button, there goes your resistance. Ofc that would have some other very dire consequences, especially with public opinion and international relations, but it's not like the US military wouldn't be able to do it if they were ordered to do so.

As for gun control being discussed when people are emotional, you're absolutely right, it is, and it's not really a great thing to take actions in emotional moments (invasion of Afghanistan *cof cof*), but it's an issue that needs to be debated at some point. Personally I'd go with the idea of a big comission full of strict specialists (people with their heads in the right place, and sharp on the issue) that can take actions to fix the gun problem in America.

Edited 10/5/2017 23:06:10

If concern for civilian casualties is enough of a handicap to make the Iraq and Afghanistan conflict basically unwinnable, dragging on for years, (same with ISIS and Syria) then you would think, since empathy for one's own people is even greater, out of concern for AMERICAN civilian casualties the US military would fail absolutely at trying to subdue an armed population and take their guns. That is not even the option, there is no sane plan to ever execute an operation to disarm the whole US population by force.

Of course guns prevent coups. An army with guns isn't stopped because of "government by the people.. for the people" written on a fucking piece of paper, they stop because they'd get shot up by citizens if they tried to seize control. Realpolitik is the only politics that matter. Governments that take peoples' guns and freedom have, in recent times, been elected democratically. You elect your socialist demagogue, what's the difference? Same shitty policies. Democracy results in tyranny.

The doctor story you mentioned could have easily been executed with knives or a blunt force object like a hammer.

So if anything, trucks are worse than guns. Because soldiers and police can shoot down a gunman in the street, but a trucker??? See how this story isn't really an argument against guns.

Neither are the night club casualties in Paris. It actually requires a lot of bullets (excl. headshots) to kill a target, given the state of medicine today. If an armed defender was serious about shooting down a target, even in a packed room, he could go about it with minimal casualties. Also, don't people tend to run out of the way of shooters? You have to be dedicated to kill a moving target. A defensive shooter would not shoot fleeing people.

-

They're talking about banning "bump stocks" now. Bump stocks are very hard to use and require careful practice. Bump stocks cause terrible accuracy and are thus a waste of ammo. A mass shooter would be better off not using a bump stock anyway since it's just a waste of ammo.

Also you can make your own bump stock pretty easily.

Also laughable how politicians like Biden and Shillary that love waging proxy wars killing hundreds of thousands of people suddenly care about public safety via gun control.

@TeamGuns

You tell us, in your response:

I don't believe in magic wands that will solve the gun issue called gun control, that's as much stupid lobby populism as believing that the government will take over if americans aren't allowed to buy silencers. Really, Europe has tons of guns itself, the Swiss are the third most armed in the world, France doesn't lag too much behind and is 10-11ish, and it's not like there's mass shootings every day in either of these countries.

You make an excellent point. We need to take a long hard look at our society and come to grips with what accounts for the difference between a well armed nation such as the Swiss, and the U.S.

Robert VerBruggen writing at the National Review made this statement on Bump-Stocks.

There are plenty of the things already in circulation legally, which cannot and should not be confiscated ... But this is a device that serves no compelling civilian purpose and yet can drastically increase the body count of a mass shooting. We should not allow companies to perfect its design and sell it openly. Congress should give this product the same treatment it gave to true full autos three decades ago: Grandfather what already exists, but stop new ones from entering the market. If a compromise is in order, attaching this policy to the Hearing Protection Act, which would make it easier to buy sound suppressors, would be an ideal solution.

>it didn't drastically increase the body count

A truck with a machine gun on the back is one of the most potent weapons of war in the modern era, next to that are shoulder mounted anti tank weapons and barrels filled with TnT and shrapnel. High technology is usually answered by a low tech solution, or at least an easily attained solution of it's own making.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War

and before you say France won the war, the most they did was bomb Libyan units south of the parallel, and with America gift arms to the Chadians. Aside from that, the Chadians worked alone north of the parallel.

>bongo jungle people with avg IQ scores of 50 get guns from the GOOD BOI US government

>

>no artillery
>no tanks
>no planes
>no helicopters
>outnumbered
>enemy has tons of advanced soviet equipment
>have aks and Toyotas
>completely crush Libyans, France thinks you're about to invade Libya and depose Gaddafi so they make you have a ceasefire before the final operation of the war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Annual

You know Murder is illegal right? By murdering people, he broke a law. You think another law is going to prevent this?

only gun control tards believe that

Noone cares. How about Hurricane Nate hitting America? at least if you don't care about things outside America then how about this?

Cata Cauda, get up in here in the fight against U.S.-Americentrism.

Edited 10/8/2017 13:44:13

The fatal flaw with gun control always remains the same. Honest citizens will comply, leaving criminals as the only ones armed.

We get it. You don't have as many guns in Europe. The cat is already out if the bag over here though. Disarming the populace is just impossible and would leave common citizens more vulnerable to the criminals anyway.

Gun grabbing isn't going to work in this scale. The solution lies in better public security or reducing violent crime through alternate means.

Edited 10/8/2017 14:05:32

There's literally no correlation between gun ownership and murder among US states, and among countries.

The US might have the highest murder rate in the DEVELOPED WORLD. Key word there. We are also a multicultural country with many Black and Hispanic people. The war on drugs hasn't helped either.

Good to see many people who disagree on everything else uniting against this bullshit

No one sane cares about handguns. Let us better fight against acceptance for ABC-weapons.

Most gun crimes are committed with hand guns.

However people shot with handguns are more likely to survive. 7/8 people shot with handguns survive the shooting.