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Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 18:32:29


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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The thread is too old to post in. I was wondering, your sheet says:

Every player has to register an account to be used in the Clan League(clans can do it on players' behalf as well). This account can't be changed in subsequent seasons unless they ask the organizers specifically (We will only allow changes if it doesn't appear that they are doing this just to circumvent this rule).
A player has to be in the clan whenever a game is assigned. If you aren't in the clan it's a loss. Clan managers will need to substitute players who have left their clan(if games haven't been allocated) (Needs work)*
There will be two registration periods for CL10. The first window will be at the start of the season. The second window will be at the midway point of the season(2 months in). It will last for a period of 2 weeks and gives clans a chance to replace players who have left.
The substitution limit will be increased to 10 per clan. There are 18 slots in a season. Clans should be able to guarantee some sort of stability, or be penalized for it.
If a player(who is in P tournaments) transfers from clan X to Y in the mid-season window, they can only represent clan Y in (3-P) tournaments.
All alts used in CL must be declared publicly.


Why would alts need to be declared if they are not allowed? You are saying only 1 account can be used, and that account must be in the clan.

Suppose I have 2 accounts: Player1 and Player2 in two clans: ClanA and ClanB respectively

If I declare Player1 as my main, and it is in ClanA, why does it matter that I have a Player2 account? I am not allowed to use it ever in CL, unless I get permission from you to declare that my main.

IMO, I would have everyone declare alts, and allow them, with this caveat:
A player may only operate 1 account in a CL, and the account must be in the clan. Keep your rule about transferring the account to another clan. Also add that a player may use a different account in a subsequent season, but they are available for 3-N tournaments, with N being the number they played last season.

So if I declare Player1 and Player2 and I use Player1 in ClanA in CL10 for 2 formats...I would be allowed to use Player2 as my account in ClanB in CL11, but only 1 format.

IF you restrict someone to a single account and don't allow them to use another one ever, not only is there no reason to declare them, but you encourage people to circumvent the rules to compete for another clan. If you allow for a very limited flexibility, you encourage transparency.

Edited 9/27/2017 18:36:24
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 19:39:55


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I am watching your youtube chat, and it sounds like your main point is you want people to compete for the clan they are MOST invested in, which is fair.

BUT, what happens when their clan merges with another and there is no room for them to compete? Your rules allow for them to swap accounts in those clans (so they are still using the same account, just in a new clan), without penalty...if not in the same season. But if someone was in those two accounts for years, you are not allowing them to simply use the other account in the 2nd clan.

I don't really understand this, because it doesn't keep anyone from being a free agent and playing in different clans every season. It only means they have to physically move their account.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 19:48:41


master of desaster 
Level 65
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About clan switching: it's no problem to switch a clan. Just switching back to the original clan won't be allowed for a certain time
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 20:08:46


wakanarai 
Level 58
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and in the same season you are only allowed to play in 3 tournaments right? And included a cap for replacements as well if i remember correctly
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 20:22:03


Batman
Level 55
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Alts used in CL are to be declared.
Like if xenophon or pardon is playing via an alt, they have to declare that account is theirs.

And where does it say alts are not allowed?
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 21:40:08


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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It says you declare your main, and only play with your main. Thus, no other accounts will be used. Thus, no 'alts' in CL at all, you simply define what your main is for CL purposes
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 21:44:43


Njord 
Level 61
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it says an account, i could use an alt that were played 200 games on and declare it as an cl acc. it would still clearly not be my main, so it would need to be declared who's alt it was(as i understand it)

Edited 9/27/2017 21:48:14
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 21:51:40


Cowboy 
Level 57
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Alts are allowed to play, but if you play on an alt there is the caveat that you will be attached to that account for the next couple clan leagues.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 22:04:11


Njord 
Level 61
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no it very clearly states that
account can't be changed in subsequent seasons unless they ask the organizers specifically (We will only allow changes if it doesn't appear that they are doing this just to circumvent this rule).


Edited 9/27/2017 22:06:09
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 22:05:39


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Why would alts need to be declared if they are not allowed? You are saying only 1 account can be used, and that account must be in the clan.
All alts used in CL must be declared publicly.

Njord's explanation above should clear it up for you. We're not asking you to declare all of your alts on WL. If you register an account in CL which is not the one you usually use, we ask that you declare it.

BUT, what happens when their clan merges with another and there is no room for them to compete? Your rules allow for them to swap accounts in those clans (so they are still using the same account, just in a new clan), without penalty...if not in the same season.
There is a penalty though. There are movement restrictions where if you play for Clan A and then play for Clan B, you cannot go back to play for Clan A for another 2 seasons.

Alts are allowed to play, but if you play on an alt there is the caveat that you will be attached to that account for the next couple clan leagues.
This is not true. The account you use in CL10 will be the only account you can ever use in all future seasons.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 22:41:44


Cowboy 
Level 57
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Ahh, I misunderstood.

Still, the point remains. Alts can play, it just means that they will be stuck to that account.

Another question remains - if the number of clans participating drops as much as it looks like it will, what would be the preferred format? Shrink A&B to keep the qualifiers in tact, or to make one division out of C.
- downvoted post by Genghis
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/27/2017 23:43:30


Igel
Level 33
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keep it simple:

"A player may only operate 1 account in a CL, and the account must be in the clan."(ChrisCMU)

so, you can only play for one clan in the actual CL, and you can't switch to another clan in the middle of the running CL.
if you are not the main account, you have to tell, what your main is. (for the fairness)

for another CL you can of course switch.


I hope i could explain my thoughts with my limited english-knowledge.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/28/2017 03:41:39


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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OK, that sounds fair Motd, thanks for clearing that up!
Clan League Improvement ideas: 9/30/2017 01:20:39


Tito 
Level 45
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About clan switching: it's no problem to switch a clan. Just switching back to the original clan won't be allowed for a certain time


Thoughts on a transfer window
- downvoted post by QueefBalls
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/8/2017 22:05:58


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Why is there discussion on the clan name change thread about Lynx and 101st being in the same division?

IMO, thr clan league rules should not prevent that. It should only be in the business of determining what players can play for a particular clan. Let the promo system run as normal and if that means a clan doesn't have enough eligable players, that is on them to resolve.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/8/2017 22:23:38


the terrorists
Level 11
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Why is there discussion on the clan name change thread about Lynx and 101st being in the same division?


'cause someone quoted Fizzer's statement about a clan's name being its identity and TBest (jokingly?) suggested applying it to the Outlaws/101st situation. Under the agreement reached between 101st and Outlaws, when either clan is mentioned in any thread (or chat) members of both clans are obligated to drop by and mention that they're not salty about how things turned out and that what happened was good for both of them. The Lynx/101st discussion was an offshoot of that but only pops up in a relatively small group of comments.

If you try to move a conversation from one thread to another (that's been dead for over a month), the terrorists (usually) win.

Edited 11/8/2017 22:34:24
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/9/2017 00:06:09


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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this may really not be an improvement idea, rather revolutionary change and i really don't expect to implement it anything soon, but i wonder why clan league isn't really works as league of clans. So, (basing on name of the competition) i would expect that clans compete with each other(like recent One vs Outlaws "battle") and final standing is build from results of such games.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/9/2017 05:04:58


Edge
Level 61
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@ Chris

I would rather have this discussion about brother/sister clans in CL here as well.

From my perspective we do need to talk about this problem. Clans like f.ex. M'Hunters asked multiple time in the past, why they can't field a 2nd team, when other clans field a brother/sister clan as "2nd" team.

That's a point that needs to be addressed. Brother and sister clans were born, due to the idea of splitting the "elite" from the "trainees". Other clans include both in one clan and shouldn't have a disadvantage for that system. So if there is a system which indicates, that a clan isn't absolutely free from the mother clan, f.ex. because the best players go to the mother clan if they reach certain standards, than u do need to talk about restrictments.

That could mean to exclude one of the clans completely from CL and view both clans as 1 overall clan system. But that could also mean to just remove certain rights for one of those clans. F.ex. by voting templates, or the ability to play in the same division.

I do see that there need to be talks about that topic, before we face those "problems" for the voting process f.ex. also just to offer equality, which could mean that in the end it maybe in the interest of all players and clans to allow all clans to fill a 2nd team as well. Either due to a brother/sister clan system which splits the "elite" from the "trainees" or a system that includes "elite" and "trainees" in one clan.

If there are other clans playing in CL currently who aren't independant from other clans, would it make any difference to clans who field 2nd teams?

Edited 11/9/2017 05:08:05
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/9/2017 08:06:28


Batman
Level 55
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Is the 2nd team allowed only if they're under different clan tag? how many clans can/will field a 2nd team?

Seeing decline of many clans, I don't think allowing a 2nd team of a clan is a bad idea and it would be good for bigger clans. And can help more players to play CL compared to earlier without having to buy/use a different clan.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/10/2017 08:42:51


Cowboy 
Level 57
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@edge

People will still complain regardless, as a clan such as us can easily field a second or a third team (hell even Lynx could at this point) and unless you say brother clans can't field multiple lineups which I'd argue is unfair to our players, they would say we have an unfair advantage. I can promise you 101st and Lynx has no interests in colluding to to give one an advantage over the other, nor do we allow our players to switch from Lynx to 101st to just play CL.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/10/2017 10:59:40


Edge
Level 61
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Lynx and 101st are to connected to be 100% independent from each other. 101st is the training clan and if players reach a certain level they join Lynx. That's a connected system. Players train together, the template taste will be more the same than between independent clans since it should be that both clans should play for more with each other than 2 other clans. Lynx recruits the best of 101st, so the clan 101st will never have a chance to be better than Lynx, so that's what i mean when i say 101st will never be 100% an independent clan. It's a training clan, basically a longer arm of Lynx.

Outlaws could also just put players who can't play for Outlaws into Potatoe Knights and let them play under that name in CL.

That's legit under the current rules but shouldn't be allowed, if other clans doesn't get the possibility to field a 2nd team.

I would even go that far and say that 2nd teams and training clans should be only allowed to play in an independent league to protect smaller clans, who suffer and would continue to suffer from the problem that training clans and 2nd teams (would) play together with the other clans in CL.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/10/2017 12:17:54


Buns157 
Level 67
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Thanks Cowboy, I think we will all just take your word for it and all be dandy with Lynx and 101st in the same group.

I'm sure if that does happen that any boots from 101st to Lynx will be accidental of course.

:)
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/10/2017 12:59:27


John John Johnson
Level 57
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I personally believe the Brother/Sister Clan discussion and the Alt discussion are two sides of the same problem: I, a currently mediocre player, have an alt in CORP while my main is in Outlaws. It is unlikely for me to be anything other than a team player in Outlaws, where as in CORP I could probably represent them in a 1v1 and a team game. However if I chose to play for CORP in CL10 I will not ever be able to represent Outlaws with my main unless I swap my accounts' placements. As these clans arent connected, it doesnt feel normal to do it, nor do I expect Outlaws to accept an alt of mine.

This is important to consider with 2nd teams/Brother and Sister Clans. If a player in f.ex Lynx is a good player but not strong enough to compete for Lynx then this would make it easy for said player to swap his main with an alt in 101st, as these clans are Connected and said player is probably in the servers these clans share and also in both the clan exclusive servers making the swap both smooth and somewhat normal. Thus he could represent 101st and help them, and once he becomes a better player simply swap back his accounts and represent Lynx. This gives the Mother clans and Brother/Sister clans a massive advantage towards lesser clans as it would allow them decent players from their Mother clan to represent the Brother/Sister Clan, and effectively have a stronger representation than what might actually be their real situation. It would also give the players that does this more experience compared to an equal player in a clan without a Brother/Sister Clan. This actually encourages players to sort of circumvent the rules regarding alts.

If we allowed 2nd teams (provided we keep allowing Brother/Sister Clans), perhaps in a separate CL system, this would encourage such players to stay in their clans and represent them even if they arent the best there and instead prevent Brother/Sister Clans a possible advantage towards lesser clans with fewer members.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/10/2017 14:45:35


master of desaster 
Level 65
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You guys make it sound like you can switch however you like. In fact, if you change your clan you're playing for once, you can't play for the old one the season after (not sure for how many seasons exactly, but at least one)
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/10/2017 19:48:04


Njord 
Level 61
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2 seasons under the new rules
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/11/2017 15:51:03


John John Johnson
Level 57
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But if you have represented neither of the clans in the Clan League, and swap your accounts this means you can swap back any time you like? (excluding the season youre currently in, and of course: once you swap again you cant return to the clan you first represented)

If thats the case then its not a breaking of the alt rules, but it will still encourage lesser players to play for their Brother/Sister clan until they have reached a high enough level to ensure a place in the line up for the Mother clan. Whether this is ok or not is up to you, but imo I still think this would give Brother/Sister clans an unfair advantage towards the clans they compete with.

If this is ok, then almost all major clans should simply make a Brother/Sister Clan and have their aspiring players play for it, but thats no different than allowing the fielding of 2nd teams. The only real difference would then be a different name.
Clan League Improvement ideas: 11/11/2017 18:19:24


TBestLittleHelper
Level 47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

EDIT: I would say something, but I belive my standpoint has been made clear before. So I went for some light satire. Enjoy!

Edited 11/11/2017 18:20:13
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