@Fizzer (in case he sees this)
I'd like some clarification on what is acceptable on a team ladder. If one of my team mates goes inactive/retires, am I expected to wait for 5 months before rejoining the ladder because I have unexpired games on one of my teams? I would assume that is not the case since I'm not playing on an alt.

ps - I think there should be some limit on new teams involving the same set of people using different accounts though. This is something which is common practice when someone loses a game and starts a new team with alts to try to get #1

Edited 8/6/2017 18:29:06

I agree with Supergamerz. As long as nothing is done to reinforce those rules and as long as no further details are provided about the rules (like, alt teams in regular tournaments or alt teams on ladders are common practices) this will continue. Before I did ladder team game runs with myself, I asked around within the strategic community and no one seems to think it is against the rules...And is it? Some of the rules laid-out on the print-screen here are really subject to interpretation. Where does it says clearly you can't ladder or team up with yourself on a same team ladder or NON-COIN tournaments?

People say 2 heads think better than 1, so a good player laddering with oneself is putting himself in a position of handicap compared to 2 good players teaming up and sharing more ideas. As far as RT ladder or 1v1 ladder runs, I totally agree that you should theoretically wait until all games are expired on 1 account before doing runs on an other account but most people will keep doing it until something is done to reinforce this rule.

"You should wait..." is not legally binding. That's just Fizzer trying to encourage people to act a certain way without writing anything he has to bother to enforce. Since when has our overlord cared about ladder honesty?

So let's say I leave ladder with account A and join with account B next day.
I get that unexpired games on account A affect ratings and rank of other players I played on it.
I don't get how can this affect my play on account B. As far as I know, pairing algorithm is very loose and depends far more on games ended in similar time than player rating. Maybe I can get sligthly different pairing because of that, but this possibility is rather theoretical in my opinion. Maybe I can defeat/lose to the same player twice and affect their overall performance because of that, but again, it is too few points to give him any significant dis/advantage. Or not? I don't understand ratings in detail, but this is the only way I can imagine playing with B immediately after A could create a problem...

People having more than one account with unexpired games or playing with alts on team ladders is the consequence of low quality of the ladders settings and ranking systems.

People make ladder runs with different accounts because they give a stupidly high advantage. Why float around 20th place when you can hit 1st? Take care of that if you want them gone.

People are playing with alts on team ladders because it takes lots of time and effort to get a good result, which can so easily be destroyed by a teammate boot. You need to communicate, it takes time, it's easier to run out of it. A boot against a low ranked team is not only an auto-loss, it completely butchers up your rating you worked so hard on. So fun!

If only there were options that would not destroy a month of players' effort while still punishing for a boot... Like having your turn carried out by AI for example? Too bad noone thought of that, right?

Look how many team runs end after a boot. It's a plague.

One thing about Fizzer I really don't understand. We have taking control back from AI, we have banked boots. These were not around when I started playing. Fizzer put so much time coding all these options into the game. Why not use them?

Keep in mind: people play the ladders the way they do because they are trying to have fun.

If you're only playing with your alts on the team ladders that is allowed. It could be different through if u play in a normal team with one of your accoutns, lose a game there and rejoin the ladder with your alts and that account. Than u would have unexpired games on that account, so according to the sentences above this seems not to be allowed.

They say downloading movies online is illegal but people do it anyway. Why? No punishment.

No Punishment = the "I don't give a fuck about the rules" type of attitude cause it's gain without consequence.

Everyone has done it at some point of their lives and people do it freely here with no bother. The lack of punishment for doing these things is so extreme that people don't even know that it is against the rules. That fact really says everything...

Communication is the single most difficult attribute for people to master in team games. If you don't believe me, then you probably need to play more large team open games.

The idea that the absence of multiple viewpoints is sufficient enough of a handicap to offset any person's team of alts is ludicrous for all the reasons Rento identified. True teams suffer from a plague, and alts are the vaccination of choice, providing a clear and obvious competitive advantage.

The team ladder does not reward teamwork. It needs to.

If you're only playing with your alts on the team ladders that is allowed. It could be different through if u play in a normal team with one of your accoutns, lose a game there and rejoin the ladder with your alts and that account. Than u would have unexpired games on that account, so according to the sentences above this seems not to be allowed.

That would be a bad rule. Now I play with alts on 2v2 ladder. What if I wanted to start a ladder run with a friend? I have to wait 5 months? And then, I play with him, then he loses interest. I need to wait another 5 months before entering the ladder with a different teammate? That makes no sense.

That's what it looks like. The reasoning behind that rule could be that your previous games still influence the ratings of your former opponents for 5 months, so u need to wait until your games are unexpired to make a new run. Because that's the time were other ratings aren't anymore influenced by your former performances.

Edit: Does that rule makes sense? Yes and No. Yes it prevents completly the gaming on the ladders for your own advantage with multiple accounts. As MotD mentions losing one game leaving the Ladder and directly rejoin with another account shouldn't be the sense of a competitive ladder. But ofc there is another side. 5 months is a pretty long time, which seems to be to long. So i agree that there is definitely a need to execute that rule for quite some time. 2 or 3 months seems reasonable for me. 5 is very long.

Edited 8/7/2017 11:44:50

So, are we going to abide by the rule or do as-usual, alt runs?

this issue has been discussed in half a dozen other threads already. :S

...to nobody's satisfaction, unfortunately.

2 top players in a team will usually do better than the same guy X2 or X3. If you don't have a good communication with your teammate, maybe you aren't a good fit for one another.

It's not about playing with an alt, not directly at least. It's about playing with another account on the Ladder although u have unexpired games on the same ladder on another account(s). That's what gives u the advantage and that's were u're gaming the Ladder according to Fizzer.