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Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 10:39:15


Gus squared 
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Although this study is of young American men, I am sure the phenomenon is global, and WarLight contributes to it. And not just young men :)

https://www.axios.com/young-american-men-are-choosing-video-games-over-work-2453328577.html?utm_medium=linkshare&utm_campaign=organic

Young American men can find work but prefer to play video games

Twenty-something men are working many fewer hours than they did a decade and a half ago, according to a new study, and the biggest reason is that they prefer to play video games.

Men aged 21-30 worked 12% fewer hours in 2015 than they did in 2000, according to the study, published Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, and about half the reason is the time they spend gaming.

Why it matters: The results suggest that reduced work for prime-age men is not just or even mostly because they can't find jobs or sufficient hours. It's that, rather than accept what is out there, they choose the contemporary equivalent of hanging out at the pool hall or the race track. In fact, in 2015, roughly 15% of young men worked zero weeks over the year, nearly double the rate in 2000.

Meaning in life: The NBER findings, originally flagged last year, say that the decline in work hours by men 21-30 almost exactly mirrored their time spent on leisure — mostly video gaming. In the New York Times, Jane McGonigal, a video game scholar, suggested that games offer this young cohort something lacking in available jobs — a meaning to life, specifically that "I'm trying to improve this skill, teammates are counting on me, and my online community is relying on me."


    *A lot more men in this age group are living with their parents or some other close relative -- 35% of them in 2015, compared with 23% in 2000.

    *But they are not unhappy or aimless, according to Erik Hurst, one of the paper's authors. Their attitude, he tells the Times, may be, "why not have a little fun in your 20s and work in your 80s?"


Edited 7/5/2017 10:39:56
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 10:45:38


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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Yep, it's actually a big problem, especially when gaming is an obstacle for someone with regard to finding a job.
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 11:16:57


Leibstandarte (Vengeance)
Level 45
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^ This

I am already a wage slave so i don't care, after i finish the uni then i shall find a job, i just need to learn German and 1 extra language so i can go out with 3 extra languages, a huge headstart.

PS: 1.2 US dollars per hour.

Edited 7/5/2017 11:19:00
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 15:43:28

(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^Good luck! :3
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 15:44:13

(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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Work is honorable while a gangster is one of the worst things you can be.
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 15:48:28


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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Tabby, what do you consider to be the worthiest job ever?
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 15:53:12

(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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Almost any form of work is worthy. Maybe an entrepreneur?
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 16:42:07


Leibstandarte (Vengeance)
Level 45
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I'd say soldiering but i am inclined to say being a leader as well.
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 20:21:40


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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Interesting find!

Purely from a statistical point of view, I'm not convinced that the effect here is completely or mainly causal. I guess it does make sense that some people don't want to work because they like to play video games instead, but others may play video games while they are still studying or looking for a job, or only find part-time or interim jobs and fill the rest of the time with video games.

It's worth noting that in the abstract of the original article, the authors never make such a bold statement either. The strongest statement they make is that gaming innovations are predictive for (some of) the decline in market hours. But a consequence can be predictive (in a statistical sense) for a cause as well. Although I generally agree that there is probably some gaming -> work causal effect in there as well.

Of course, formulating it in such a strict causal way will get more clicks and advertisement income for the website. ;-)
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 20:39:53


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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LOL, I just found out that Math Wolf blacklisted me, even though I never contacted him. He did the same thing with my original account 1 year ago if I remember well.
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/5/2017 20:52:33


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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^
I am not surprised trolls are being blacklisted.
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/11/2017 21:01:37


Gus squared 
Level 59
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Math Wolf, great point about causality -- you can argue it either way.
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/11/2017 21:13:20


Njord 
Level 61
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How Can you argue it either way? Is the point not, that you cant do that?

Edited 7/11/2017 21:33:14
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/12/2017 10:06:47


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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How Can you argue it either way? Is the point not, that you cant do that?

A complete answer to this would get us pretty far pretty quickly, so I'll try to give a general outline.

Classical statistical models only measure association, not causation. However, a statistical model is only one tool. In practice, some knowledge of the problem and the underlying (in this case economical) processes could help in arguing that a causal link that goes one way or the other, based on common knowledge and general proofs of concept.

However, this is where most researchers stop, while this step can introduce strong researcher's bias towards a conclusion one wants to obtain. Correct statistical analysis at this point would call for adapted causal inference models which do exist (the simplest being a structural equation model) and that do a decent job under some assumptions.

There is still a risk of misspecification of these models as well and even if events happen in a certain order, there is never a (statistical) guarantee of causality (e.g.: in economics a later event could be a lagging indicator of an earlier event, although one might assume that an earlier event is the leading indicator of a later event). My personal rule of thumb is that the process needs to be known and well-documented (or in exploratory research: objective findings that point towards causality beyond the scientist's imagination) before you can claim it. And, even in that case, the total effect could be a combination of a known causal process and an unknown confounder.

So yeah, that prejudice about statisticians never being certain: we actually try to tell other researchers that they shouldn't be too certain of themselves. ;-)

Disclaimer: I'm personally not a specialist in causal inference, but half of my research group is doing research in causal inference so I do catch a few things once in a while. ;-)



For this specific example, I'm following Gus. I'm not familiar enough with the material, but viable arguments for both causal processes (given in my previous post) exist and could be theoretically tested. I have the feeling that the researchers themselves tried to circumvent the tricky causality question by using "gaming innovations" rather than gaming itself. But it would be dangerous to claim that changes in gaming innovations can certainly not be (indirectly) caused by changes in market hours.

Of course, the best and only (almost) certain way to solve the causal problem would be using an experimental setup including randomization (and a few other lesser requirements). This is often not possible, not practical or extremely expensive and time-consuming. It would be fun, but kinda unethical in this particular example I think. ;-)
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/12/2017 14:57:24


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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@Gus Squared and Math Wolf
Interesting thread in Off-topic. If you click axios.com then it is obvious that titles are click-baits.

The thing, that I do not like nor trust that source is not click-bait title. A lot of respected sites use click-bait titles to draw attention - its a fault of our curiosity and economic means behind sites. But what triggers me is the use of a copy of a copy of copy other website sources. The author may not understand what were the aims of those studies. The author uses mixed data from different sources and draw conclusion on wrong grounds. If it would have been his own conducted study and reported in fair manners with outlined aims, premises, constraints and conclusions. To me it seems this website is copy of other news-feeds and not primary news. Not that referring the others is bad, but it must be done in fair manners and with added value - not to get clicks on your site. Their aim is not do share study, data, but just generate clicks and revenue.

But the topic is interesting. I can sure find around 10 between 20-30 aged males among my friends who fit the description. But another 5 who work less, just because they do not need to work that much due to high-value sector and prefer to spend time on other things: family, sport, travel.

Edited 7/12/2017 15:00:13
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/12/2017 18:44:55


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 62
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Good jobs are getting way harder to get nowadays, even if you have high studies that were oriented towards being a professional in some kind of specific domain. You add to that that universities and colleges are giving diplomas to some people that don't deserve it and you have a situation where too much graduates are fighting for the few good job available. Automatization in the work place is also cutting jobs that could be giving to the masses.

The few good jobs available require so much of the "fortunate" people having gotten them because employers know they can replace their workers quite easily. The result is that you have a lot of people over-educated having to do boring jobs that are way below their skill level and a few "lucky" guys that have a good job but that is so stressing that they often develop burn-outs, depression or some sort of anxiety. I guess that's why people play more video games in my opinion, as a way to evade this economic and social malfunction of society.

I don't think it is that "young prefer to play video games over getting a job", it is more that the good jobs are scarce and the level of exploitation and stress within the good jobs is huge. Just as an example, most people here in Québec working in the public mental health system have to take themselves pills against depression, anxiety or insomnia because of all the stress they live at work...It is such a paradox because they are there to relieve others of mental health issues but become mentally ill by working in over-stressing jobs...Of course I could work a super boring job not paid enough instead of playing too much video games, but like, why bother, where's the motivation after having done so much efforts in something and now being forced to do a repetitive boring job just for having a bit more money (that a lot will be taken by the annual taxations by the way).

I personally have finished my professional master degree 4 years ago and never had the chance to actually get a job for the level of studies I studied hardly for. When I got interviews, often people will tell me that I would replace like 3 persons that retired and they usually expect that the new recruit will be able to prosper in such a context...

Edited 7/12/2017 19:00:00
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/12/2017 20:02:38


Seraph
Level 57
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^ Great post
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/12/2017 20:36:56


Njord 
Level 61
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@ mathwolf
on the basis of the study i meant. you can ofc argue what ever you want
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/13/2017 01:49:53


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 62
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@Vlad It is not because it is bad elsewhere that everyone should live like a 3rd world country. I would agree most "westerners" have a better life than most 2nd or 3rd world countries but the differences between the riches and poor here is way bigger than it used to be like 30 years ago because of all the economic deregulations. The wealth is distributed so badly in this world, between countries but also within the so-called developed countries.

Immigrants come here and think they will life THE LIFE but they soon realize that a lot of things don't work here (no culture, no values, no morals, not so great jobs). People come here as like doctors but end up working in the local store around the street. The american dream is an illusion for most people unless you were already born from a wealthy family in most cases. Your perception that people here are lazy is just your opinion based on nothing factual. A lot of people here would like to contribute to the amelioration of the society, but can't because of the lack of good jobs.

Edited 7/13/2017 01:55:05
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/13/2017 01:53:32


∞ Western Imperialist ∞
Level 17
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^ t lazy
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/13/2017 01:55:15


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 62
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You are just ignorant.

Edited 7/13/2017 01:55:56
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/13/2017 02:04:07


∞ Western Imperialist ∞
Level 17
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salt
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/13/2017 10:46:36


psykkoman
Level 57
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In my opinion, escapism is general trend of young generation, because from their fresh perspective, the system we live in is flawed in so many ways that they simply see little to no point in engaging. As others pinted out, carrer perspectives are marginal and connected to jobs who are so stressfull that even those who get them regret that they did so.
The things is, we are not biologically wired for modern fast and stressful lifestyle. Video games, paradoxically, can provide environment for action that is closer to what our intuition perceives as natural state, alongside with sense of meaning and importance to others lacking in modern society.

"People are made to be loved and things are made to be used... The confusion in this world is that people are being used and things are being loved..." (author unknown)
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/13/2017 15:42:15


Venus Angelic
Level 56
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Benoit and psykkoman made great posts here that everyone should read. I live in America and I can tell you that the majority of Americans are very hard working people, especially those who have others depending on them (like fathers etc) who have to work extra hours to support their families.

However, if you can avoid work and still earn a decent living (like for example you live with parents who earn a decent income and you don't have to pay bills etc) then there is less of an incentive to work. People want to work when the desire for that reward at the end is greater than the stress and time.

Edited 7/13/2017 15:57:54
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/13/2017 20:58:49


Belgian Gentleman 
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This brings up the idea of 30 hours a week work. Amazingly enough, early economists projected that today the average workday would be reduced to 5 hours a day/25 hours a week due to technology evolving. Little did they know that little has changed and the boring schedule remains in place
Young can find work but prefer to play video games: 7/14/2017 20:46:01


psykkoman
Level 57
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Guys do you know expression "bullshit job"? Belgian's post reminded me on excellent article of anthropology professor David Graeber He proposes idea that 75% of jobs we currently have are kind of work which is completely pointless.
Check here: https://libcom.org/library/phenomenon-bullshit-jobs-david-graeber It is quite long read, but I promise, really worth your time!

Edited 7/14/2017 20:55:37
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