Pointing out things that may not work is probably my professional habit. It's not that I like being negative or I want to give you more work. It's because I want to help, believe me :)

If the idea is to have a big pool of clans, with clans like let's say Olympus and 7th Heaven together, and matchmaking would be made by simply matching together clans with not enough games at the moment, that would mean you can pick opponents by checking which clans lack games. I can't believe that no clan would abuse that when it's such a simple and easy way to gain an advantage, and not a small one.

If you go for such system, scheduled games like hinted by Beren and Math Wolf are a must imo.

Pointing out things that may not work is probably my professional habit.

Are you a statistician as well? ;-)

I agree 100% with Rento. People will try to get favorable match-ups in such a system just like people do on the ladders often, unless there is no way to see what games are finished and hence no way to know what opponent you'll get next. I also feel that some people that are slow might be being slow (in tournaments) to gain intel on the picking habits of their next opponents. In an ideal world, no one could see finished games of a same tournament but that's unfortunately not really possible.

3 days boot is a must. People usually assume all standard tourneys and ladders are 3 days boot. People will get booted at 2 days imo and we have already too much boots in Clan League. Maybe to speed up the process you could put 3 games at once instead of 2 and if some players can't do it because they feel it is too much, they could let their place to someone else. I know a lot of us that have like over 20 MD games so 20 vs 21 is not a big deal imo. If you play 3 tournaments with 2 games at once, you should be able to play 2 tournaments with 3 games each at once.

Edited 5/2/2017 23:05:01

I have two arguments for the way things are done.

1. In defense of the value of the three day boot:

Day 1: Strategy Discussion Open
Day 2: Strategy Discussion Closes, Moves are Finalized
Day 3: Full 24 hours to commit orders so no one gets booted

There are a lot of variation in work schedules and time zones within a lot of clans. I believe the time allows people with different schedules to work on a fully formed “team” strategy as opposed to single players on a team just making gut moves without consideration for the team strategy.






2. A proposal to solve the seeding complaints and the unfairness in the current system, while reducing the completion time and total number of games, yet increasing the certainty of the results through improved accuracy:

In terms of accuracy of seeding the second round, full round robin has the highest accuracy in sorting out clan rank, but it also has the lowest speed. The highest speed would go to single elimination to sort out the best clan, but it has the least accuracy. Double elimination is probably the best compromise between speed and accuracy.

The difference between Hydra and ACME is one game and the difference between Corp and LuFredd is one game. The difference between whoever wins Q3's second slot is likely to be one game. From looking at the current scores, I don't see a significant difference in skill among about seven clans.

Could you forgo a two leveled seeded round robin in favor of double elimination templates that assign points to the top 2 of each template? It would eliminate the need for two stages thus reducing time in half, reduce the total number of games by about 50% while giving each template adequate respect for its unique strategy, every clan has the potential to compete against every other clan, and I believe double elimination is a good indicator of who the top two clans are for a specific template, because it allows for one loss.

For the 11 templates, every clan would have an equal opportunity to win a spot in the top 2. No one has to worry about whether they should use their star player slots in the first round or the second round. Since a player is allowed three slots, they can play in a max of three games at a time. The total of number of games would be significantly reduced because if you lose two games on any template you are out of the double elimination or you got second place. You can weight the 1st, 2nd places, 1v1,2v2,3v3 as may be appropriate.




Tldnr;

Less time, No seeding, every clan equal opportunity, improved distinction among clans, reduced luck, less work administratively, fewer games need to be played for better results than current system.



Edit: Also eliminates the value of delaying for intel gathering, because you will have the same number of games to look at as your opponent will of yours.

Edited 5/3/2017 04:18:40

Surrenders are occurring in the Apprentice Vs TJC game. Not sure how that effects overall potential placings but can't be good for Apprentice chances.

I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one playing 3 or others 2 tournaments who simply can't play more than that and who probably need to reduce their participation to 2 or 1 tournaments, with that change. That will cause new problems. U will need more players in the lineup. More players means automatically, that u have a higher chance of players taking vacations and more players also means a higher risk of getting booted. Therefore u might need to increase the subsitutions not only to 8, but maybe even to a higher number. So that 1 change could possibly lead to many more problems/changes, which aren't very good either.

Eh, these WL players nowadays. Smileyleg played like 7 tournaments in CL7 and didn't complain!

Oh, and hello div C! :) :)

Was Smileyleg the bar for an average active player in CL during that time? I'm probably more active than the average CL player, so i only described a scenario about my concerns and possible results for an average active CL player.

You also can't just take a simple number of tournaments someone plays in. Was the majority 1vs1 tournaments? Was it team games? If it where team games how time intense was the communication? Especially the last thing is stuff only Smileyleg and his possible teammates will be able to give an answer.

Btw was it really possible to play as a single player in 7 tournaments in CL? I doubt that. 7 games sounds more accurate, through that would also means it was possible to play 3 games at once in CL 7?

Edit: In the end we need to wait how the changes will look like. After talking with MotD i'm more optimistic about it.

Edited 5/4/2017 04:32:45

The possible scenario's
(There are 16 possible outcomes left, some of those lead to the same top 2. The number of possible scenario's are indicated between brackets.)

• (6) Stats win against Apprentice, 101st doesn't win both remaining games
  -> TJC & Stats advance
  
• (4) Apprentice wins against 101st & Stats
  -> TJC & Apprentice advance
  
• (3) 101st and Stats win out, TJC wins against DWF
  OR Apprentice wins against Stats, 101st wins against Apprentice, TJC wins against 101st
  -> TJC advances, tie for 2nd between 101st and Stats (101st has tiebreaker)
  
• (2) 101st wins out, Apprentice wins against Stats
  -> TJC & 101st advance
  
• (1) 101st and Stats win out, TJC loses against DWF
  -> 3 way tie for first between TJC, Stats, 101st (complicated)
  

Number of scenario's in which each team advances:
TJC: 15 (+ 3-way tie for 1st)
Stats: 6 (+ 3-way tie for 1st)
101st: 5 (+ 3-way tie for 1st)
Apprentice: 4

Number of scenario's resulting in a tie is now 4/16 (3 of those involve 2-way tie between 101st and Stats, which would be won by 101st), it's not clear to me how the 3-way tie for first would be resolved.

Thanks for doing all the break down MW, getting really exciting in the last few games, at least Juggernauts can feel a little more relaxed in watching it now :)

Best of luck to everyone in their last few games of Q3 !!

Just 101st Vs Apprentice and Apprentice Vs Stats left!

(Technically DWF Vs TJC is a game but it has no effect on division and one player hasn't been seen for 5+ days)

Congratulations to TJC for qualifing to C.

If I am not mistaken, there are 4 possible outcomes:

Stats win vs Apprentice => Stats qualifies (2)
Stats lose to Apprentice, then
a) Apprentice wins vs 101st => Apprentice qualifies (1)
b) 101st wins vs Apprentice => 101st qualifies (1)

50% Stats, 25 % Apprentice, 25 % 101st.

Stats and Apprentice have in on their own hands, 101st hasnt.

@krunx: after 101st loss against TJC: yes.

I can also already tell that I'm pretty confident Stats will win against Apprentice. More exactly: I think we win unless I get booted or we start playing like a team rated ~1000 on the ladders and neither is likely.

UPDATE #14 SATURDAY 7TH MAY

Clan	      1v1    2v2  3v3	MP	TP	% Points       GP	GR	W	L	Win Rate

---

TJC	27	20	15	67	62	72.94%	24	1	17	7	70.83%								
Stat.	21	16	15	57	52	61.18%	24	1	14	10	58.33%								
101st	24	8	15	52	47	55.29%	24	1	13	11	54.17%								
App.	21	12	10	53	43	53.75%	23	2	12	11	52.17%								
HAWKS	21	4	5	30	30	33.33%	25	0	9	16	36.00%								
DWF	21	0	0	26	21	24.71%	24	1	7	17	29.17%



TJC still in first place, with Stat in close second and 101st in third. The competition is heating up as we are heading towards the end of the season, As kindly pointed out by Math Wolf and Krunx, TJC has more or less secured their promotion but the question is who will be advancing with them?


Stats win vs Apprentice => Stats qualifies (2)
Stats lose to Apprentice, then
a) Apprentice wins vs 101st => Apprentice qualifies (1)
b) 101st wins vs Apprentice => 101st qualifies (1)

50% Stats, 25 % Apprentice, 25 % 101st.

Edited 5/14/2017 00:23:58

Good job TJC :)

Was Smileyleg the bar for an average active player in CL during that time? I'm probably more active than the average CL player, so i only described a scenario about my concerns and possible results for an average active CL player.

You also can't just take a simple number of tournaments someone plays in. Was the majority 1vs1 tournaments? Was it team games? If it where team games how time intense was the communication? Especially the last thing is stuff only Smileyleg and his possible teammates will be able to give an answer.

Btw was it really possible to play as a single player in 7 tournaments in CL? I doubt that. 7 games sounds more accurate, through that would also means it was possible to play 3 games at once in CL 7?

7 smileyleg tournaments in Clan League 7, you judge:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15795
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15797
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15775

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15829
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15831
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15730
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15755

For those not following closely: it's over for qualification for C. Stats win against Apprentice means the remaining game between 101st and Apprentice determines 3rd place. TJC has locked 1st, Stats are locked in 2nd, winner of 101st-App is 3rd, loser 4th, HAWKS are 5th, DWF 6th.

Despite what was expected a few weeks ago, Q2 is actually the last qualifier with a meaningful game still to finish.

Edited 5/12/2017 22:55:50

Congrats TJC and Stats!

Congratulations to Stats who pulled an awesome comeback!

Congrats!!!

FINAL UPDATE SATURDAY 14TH MAY

Clan	      1v1    2v2  3v3	MP	TP	% Points       GP	GR	W	L	Win Rate

---

TJC	27	20	20	67	67	74.44%	25	0	18	7	72.00%								
Stat	21	16	20	57	57	63.33%	25	0	15	10	60.00%								
101st	24	8	15	52	47	55.29%	24	1	13	11	54.17%								
App	21	12	10	48	43	50.59%	24	1	12	12	50.00%								
HAWKS	21	4	5	30	30	33.33%	25	0	9	16	36.00%								
DWF	21	0	0	21	21	23.33%	25	0	7	18	28.00%



Math Wolf has done by job for me :P 

For those not following closely: it's over for qualification for C. Stats win against Apprentice means the remaining game between 101st and Apprentice determines 3rd place. TJC has locked 1st, Stats are locked in 2nd, winner of 101st-App is 3rd, loser 4th, HAWKS are 5th, DWF 6th.

Edited 5/14/2017 00:26:11