MoD will be in group B next season no matter what happens.

:O :D

Oh my god! I'll sue the organisators of the clan league for that!

you saw nothing

Ekstone has though!

can i join

want to compare everyone else to our clan

Hey, can you add me to the waitlist? I"m guessing there's almost no chance of participating in the next season, but maybe this will put me on the top of the list for the one after :)

I want to join this league is that it is possible for the month of November or not?

@Etienne, lets see where we are

GROUP A - FINISHED
Timinator (5-1) - WINNER
timon92 (4-2)
Krzysztof (3-3, 1-0)
rocky1 (3-3, 0-1)
FlyingBender (2-4, 2-0)
Jefferspin (2-4, 1-1) - Relegates to B
Beren • apex (2-4, 0-2) - Relegates to B

rocky1 has beaten Beren, which means the relegating players are Beren and Jefferspin. FlyingBender narrowly avoids relegation by head to head tiebreaker.

GROUP B - FINISHED
Master of the Dead (4-1, 1-0) - WINNER, Promotes to A
master of desaster (4-1, 0-1) - Promotes to A
JV (3-2, 1-0)
Bigchps147 (3-2, 0-1)
Mirror (1-4) - Relegates to C
Master Turtle (0-5) - Relegates to C

Master of the Dead has indeed beaten Mirror, and as a result he steals the group win away from Master of Desaster. Both masters, however, will promote to A. Should be an exciting season 21, if this season would only end.

GROUP C1 - FINISHED
Buns157 (5-1, 1-0) - WINNER, promotes to B
almosttricky (5-1, 0-1) - Advances to Group B promotion playoff
Oh Noes (3-3)
Master Bjarke (3-3)
Verzehrer (2-4, 1-0)
Great Expanse (2-4, 0-1) - Removed for inactivity (boots)
ChrisCMU (1-5) - Relegates to D

Great Expanse has booted, which triggers a change in promotion/relegations that will be described in the next reply. In short, Verzehrer is saved from relegation.

GROUP C2
smileyleg (5-0)
Metatron (3-0)
Pushover (4-2)
Hades (3-2)
Don [ Ω ] (1-4) - Relegates to D
Master Atom ◆Elite◆ (1-5) - Removed for inactivity (surrendering without playing)
Ollie (1-5) - Removed for inactivity (boots)

Metatron is basically single handedly holding up the league by only taking 1 turn each 3 days. I fucked up against him but it took a while for me to be sure so I only just surrendered. I hate losing from a winning position, which is pretty much what I did. This means Metatron is in a very good position to take second in the group, but he needs to win some games first. Also, given his play speed, I'm wary of holding up the whole league just so he can finish his games. So I might just let C1 take the 3rd spot to B. Metatron is in turn 25 against smileyleg, in picks against Don, and hasn't even begun playing against Hades.

Don is now certain to relegate.

GROUP D1 - FINISHED
awesomeusername (4-1, 1-0) - WINNER, Promotes to C
USA Biches (4-1, 0-1) - Promotes to C
Sułtan Kosmitów (3-2, 1-0) - Promotes to C
AWESOMEGUY (3-2, 0-1)
Andersault (1-4) - Relegates to E
ferede (0-5) - Relegates to E

awesomeusername beats both USA Biches and Andersault to take the group win! Sułtan Kosmitów beats out AWESOMEGUY for the group's final promotion spot. Andersault relegates.

GROUP D2
Dom365 (5-1) - WINNER, Promotes to C
Arkanton (4-2) - Promotes to C
Master Jz (4-2) - Promotes to C
Maréchal Lannes, duc de Montebello (3-3)
PhucilliJerry (2-3)
Platinum (2-3)
MightySpeck (a Koala) (0-6) - Relegates to E

We are *still* waiting on PhucilliJerry vs. Platinum, in turn 11, with no turns taken for over 11 days, and vacations expiring in November. So I take it back, it truly is a team effort to hold up the league this season!

GROUP E1 - FINISHED
Turkish (3-2, 2-1, 1-0) - WINNER, Promotes to D
graemes (3-2, 2-1, 0-1) - Promotes to D
Cata Cauda (3-2, 1-2, 1-0) - Promotes to D
butterfly94 (3-2, 1-2, 0-1)
Onoma94 (2-3) - Leaving the League
<SNinja> Leinad (1-4) - Relegates to F

GROUP E2 - FINISHED
PanagiotisTheGreekFreak (4-0) - WINNER, Promotes to D
13CHRIS37 (3-1) - Promotes to D
Ryzys (2-2) - Promotes to D
Hasdrubal (1-3)
mslasm (0-4) - Relegates to F

Ryzys has beaten Hasdrubal in 25 turns to snag the final promotion spot of the group.

GROUP E3 - FINISHED
DR. Love (5-0) - WINNER, Promotes to D
독일남자(Rob) (4-1) - Promotes to D
Min34 (3-2) - Promotes to D
Hostile (2-3)
tomjh (1-4)
Benjamin628 (0-5) - Relegates to F

Min34 beats tomjh to take the final promotion spot.

GROUP F1
Math Wolf (4-1) - Promotes to E
Pink (4-1) - Promotes to E
AWOL Gls AJ (3-0) - Promotes to E
Hunta (3-2) - Promotes to E
bobbob000 (1-4)
BADA (1-4)
[wolf]japan77 (0-4)

Math Wolf wins 3 straight to guarantee his promotion, but AJ's earlier win against him puts AJ in the driver's seat for bragging rights: if he beats Pink, he wins the group! All three of them will promote, as well as Hunta. The relegation battle is between the remaining three players: japan77 must beat bob to have a chance at staying in tier F.

japan77 has 1 boot, BADA has 2 boots, both players need to remain active to stay in the league.

GROUP F3 - FINISHED
culpa (5-1) - WINNER, Promotes to E
rouxburg (5-1) - Promotes to E
[NL] bassoonplayer (4-2) - Promotes to E
Countess (3-3) - Promotes to E
Coyote151 (2-4, 1-0)
[WL] Colonel Harthacanute (2-4, 0-1) - Relegates to G
Madmen (0-6) - Removed for Inactivity (boots)

Group G1 - COMPLETED
Semicedevine (6-0) - WINNER, promotes to E
MisterT (5-1) - Advances to tier E superpromotion playoff
Doron Hoh (4-2) - promotes to F
kroete (3-3) - promotes to F
MarkusBM (2-4) - promotes to F
Coronel Gavilan (1-5) - Advances to tier F promotion playoff
Bayern München is the best! (0-6)

Due to changes in promotions, MisterT has a chance at a tier E super promotion, and Coronel Gavilan has a chance at tier F promotion.

GROUP G2
dry-clean-only (5-1) - WINNER, Promotes to E
Njord (4-2, 1-0) - Promotes to F
MIFRAN (4-2, 0-1) - Promotes to F
carlos12.0 (3-3) - Promotes to F
Izazovnog (2-4, 1-0) - Promotes to F
Naram-Sin (2-4, 0-1)
Dogberry (1-5) - Leaving the League

dry-clean-only has beaten MIFRAN to take the group win as well as the super-promotion to tier E!

GROUP G3 - FINISHED
Glamorous❤ (6-0) - WINNER, Promotes to E
Motoki - モトキ (5-1) - Advances to tier E superpromotion playoff
[FCC] Aura Guardian (4-2) - Promotes to F
KKND (3-3) - Promotes to F
Dob (2-4) - Promotes to F
Kevin Turner (1-5) - Advances to tier F promotion playoff
Doc (0-6)

Due to changes in promotions, Motoki has a chance at a tier E super promotion, and Kevin Turner has a chance at tier F promotion.

GROUP G4 - COMPLETED
SATS (5-1, 1-0) - WINNER, promotes to E
Electric_Kitten (5-1, 0-1) - promotes to F
BYG Jacob (3-3, 1-0) - promotes to F
Tac(ky)tical (3-3, 0-1) - Removed for inactivity (boots)
Adolf Hitler (2-4, 1-0) - promotes to F
Weatherman900 {TJC} (2-4, 0-1)
Omniscient (1-5) - Removed for inactivity (boots)

This is the revised promotion and relegation schedule:

GROUP A - 7 players, 2 relegate (gain 2 from B)
6th and 7th place relegates

GROUP B - 6 players, 1 dropped out, 2 promote (gain 2 from A), 2 relegate (gain 3 from C)
1st and 2nd place promotes, 5th and 6th place relegates

TIER C - 3 dropped out, 3 promote (gain 2 from B), 2 relegate (gain 6 from D)
GROUP C1 - 6 players, winner promotes, 6th place relegates
GROUP C2 - 5 players, winner promotes, 5th place relegates
2nd place C1 and 2nd place C2 will have a playoff to decide the 3rd promotion

TIER D - 1 dropped out, 6 promote (gain 2 from C), 4 relegate (gain 9 from E)
GROUP D1 - 6 players, 1st through 3rd place promotes, 5th and 6th place relegates
GROUP D2 - 7 players, 1st through 3rd place promotes, 6th and 7th place relegates

TIER E - 5 dropped out, 9 promote (gain 4 from D), 3 relegate (gain 8 from F, gain 5 from G)
GROUP E1 - 5 players, 1st through 3rd place promotes, 5th place relegates
GROUP E2 - 5 players, 1st through 3rd place promotes, 5th place relegates
GROUP E3 - 6 players, 1st through 3rd place promotes, 6th place relegates

TIER F - 8 dropped out, 8 promote (gain 3 from E), 2 relegate (gain 15 from G)
GROUP F1 - 7 players, 1st through 4th place promotes, 7th place relegates
GROUP F3 - 6 players, 1st through 4th place promotes, 6th place relegates

TIER G - 3 dropped out, 5 promote to E, 15 promote to F (gain 2 from F)
GROUP G1 - 7 players, 1st place promotes to E, 2nd through 5th place promotes to F
GROUP G2 - 6 players, 1st place promotes to E, 2nd through 5th place promotes to F
GROUP G3 - 7 players, 1st place promotes to E, 2nd through 5th place promotes to F
GROUP G4 - 5 players, 1st place promotes to E, 2nd through 4th place promotes to F
2nd place G1 and 2nd place G3 will have a playoff to decide the 5th tier E promotion
6th place G1 and 6th place G3 will have a playoff to decide the 15th tier F promotion

I have created two playoff games among players in tier G.

Group E promotion playoff: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=12186491
Group F promotion playoff: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=12186495

I will send a mail message to all players involved informing them of the playoff game.

Also note, even with a player moving from waitlist to Season 21 new player list, there are currently 8 players on the waitlist. This means that if the 4 groups of tier G fill up quickly enough, I may add an extra group to tier G, for 5 total groups. This means that in season 22, tier H might end up the newbie tier, depending on participation.

Oh yes and one more thing. I would like to discuss the nature of play speed. Obviously I have 3 day boot and vacations enabled, and I see this as a very good thing, since it allows players to stay involved with the league for years without much trouble. However sometimes - either through necessity or personal preference - some players can take a long time to finish their games, and everyone else has to wait on these players for the next season to start.

This thread was created on August 15, and the last of the tournaments began on August 30. So it took about 15 days for the league to start after group creation (by design), and then another 56 days to get to this point, where the majority of the league have completed their games.

In the last thread, I proposed having 3 concurrent games instead of two to speed up the league in cases where a slower player ends up in a game taking many turns (like Metatron vs me and Metatron vs smileyleg), preventing the other pending games from being played. The reception for this was mixed, with enough players claiming they would leave the league that I dropped the idea. However I would like to revisit it.

Another option is to have a deadline before which all games must be completed. If games are not completed by this deadline, then the delaying player (as determined by average turn speed) will automatically lose all his remaining games, so that the league can move on. What do you think of this idea? And what should the deadline be? Based on this season a 60 day deadline seems reasonable, particularly with the possibility of tiebreaker tournaments and promotion or relegation playoffs. If we give 15 days for joining tournaments, 15 days for wrapping up playoffs, and 60 days for the main season of round robin tournaments, this forces each season to take up only 90 days. Or, we can allow for ties to be broken without tiebreakers or playoffs (in cases where the season runs long) and put the cap at 75 days. Or the cap can be shorter, if it's desired to have more than 4 seasons in a year.

We could also leave things the way they are and simply wait for players to finish.

What do you all think?

I think 60 days is more than reasonable. A seasonal ladder runs for 60 days and you are expected to finish 20 games. Finishing 5 or 6 games in this league seems much easier even with a vacation or two.

Please do not increase the concurrent game count to 3 if possible.

p.s - After what seems like a million years, I'm finally in A. Wohooooo!

Oh and if this wasn't clear, this season of course I wait for all required games to finish. This is a proposed change for next season.

Yes deady we did it finally! Only took me like 6 years of p/r league of always promoting with one restart from scratch ^^

If someone can't complete 6 games in 2 months, he didn't put a reasonable effort in finishing them. They didn't participate on the league in this case and relegate at least.

I sit out one season and had to start from the lowest division. I could have used 70 days of vacation as well indtead...

Edited 10/26/2016 07:08:56

If games are not completed by this deadline, then the delaying player (as determined by average turn speed) will automatically lose all his remaining games

how would you deal with games that weren't even created after 60 days?

Could also have all games start on day 1? Then any slow players should not effect the group much. It would be a bummer to get the slow player(s)/Staller(s) to open the season and have to rush moves as the deadline approaches.

Maybe that could be too much for some players. 2-3 games per tournament won't kill anybody, 6 can be problem, but with 3 days pace, that is only 2 games a day - which can be burden to some players.

Could also have all games start on day 1?

6 concurrent games? Recall that 3 concurrent games has a lot of resistance already.

how would you deal with games that weren't even created after 60 days?

This and other questions can be answered with the current season I think, pretending we reached the deadline at the last update. Let me describe what I think should happen first... then maybe rules can be devised afterwards.

In group C2 Metatron is the stalling player, so in all of Metatron's remaining games, including those not started yet, he would take the loss. In his game versus me, his turn speed was 2 days 1 hour to my 15 hour speed. In his game versus smileyleg, his turn speed is also greater, though not as pronounced: 1 day 18 hours vs 1 day 6 hours. But the real tell is that he's the only player with outstanding games. So it's clear who to punish in this scenario.

Group D2 is more interesting: both players are stalling. On paper, PhucilliJerry loses out because he as 3 day 5 hour turn speed compared to Platinum's 16 hours. But both players are on vacation and we are waiting on Platinum for 12 days 15 hours now. Does Platinum really deserve the forced win here? Under my rules he would get it.

Group F1 is another interesting case, because multiple players have stalled this season; it's just a slow group. So as an exercise lets take a look at the average turn speed among current and completed games for each player:

Math Wolf - 20, 28, 28, 31, 17, 18 (avg = 23.7)
Pink - 6, 8, 13, 10, 16, 15 (avg = 11.3)
AWOL Gls AJ - 69, 37, 15, 27, 31 (avg = 35.8)
Hunta - 4, 6, 6, 3, 6, 6 (avg = 5.2)
bobbob000 - 32, 42, 20, 15, 19, 47 (avg = 29.2)
BADA - 43, 7, 40, 72 (booted on picks), 10 (avg = 34.4)
[wolf]japan77 - 28, 39, 25, 33, 32, 25 (avg = 30.3)

You know it's a slow group when Math Wolf is the 5th slowest!! Also note that this is not an average weighted by turns per game, but lets pretend it is, I'm too lazy to do it for real.

So how would this group be resolved? Well, for games not yet assigned, we can either go by the average turn speed or by number of current games. In both measures AJ loses to BADA, so BADA would take the win.

What about games in progress? We could use either overall turn speed or just the turn speed within the game. But either one can lead to some unfair behavior. Hunta is beating Math Wolf on turn speed 5 hours to 18, but the start of this game was actually delayed by other games in the group! Does it make sense for Hunta to take the automatic win?

In summary, slow players acting alone in a group are easy to deal with. But a group with many slow players can negatively affect players who aren't stalling. Not sure how to resolve this, except arbitrarily and unfairly.

Math Wolf - 20, 28, 28, 31, 17, 18 (avg = 23.7)
Pink - 6, 8, 13, 10, 16, 15 (avg = 11.3)
AWOL Gls AJ - 69, 37, 15, 27, 31 (avg = 35.8)
Hunta - 4, 6, 6, 3, 6, 6 (avg = 5.2)
bobbob000 - 32, 42, 20, 15, 19, 47 (avg = 29.2)
BADA - 43, 7, 40, 72 (booted on picks), 10 (avg = 34.4)
[wolf]japan77 - 28, 39, 25, 33, 32, 25 (avg = 30.3)

Math Wolf not the slowest? fake and rigged.

Hey,

can you put me on the waiting list? Eager to join!

thx