Ox if you put down a list do it good with how everything went

Platinum -> Outlaws
Jinxed -> 101st -> inactive for over 3 months
Panagiotis -> Masters
Tac(ky)tical -> Outlaws -> retired?
MarkusBM -> Outlaws
TeamGuns -> Outlaws
Marceline -> Outlaws -> inactivity -> clanless
Bonsai -> Outlaws
Benoit -> Outlaws -> clanless -> VS

When i'm looking at it this way then 7 out of the 9 players actually went to Outlaws during the season but some left the clan for different reasons that shouldn't be brought up. Looking at it this way you should agree that Outlaws has a legitimate claim on the spot in CL9 since many of them went with platinum on his journey with creating a new clan.

I personally feel like Outlaws deserves the spot right now especially when you look at has been happening in clan movements since the start of CL8 till the point where we are right now.

edit:
@ox you can't compare the blitz stuff that happened between CL7 and CL8 since Masters were already participating themselves and they just recruited some Blitz players to play for them and masters never even bothered about a 2nd team so the Blitz spot was never in charge of anything.

Edited 10/16/2016 13:09:00

"Edit: Like Nex said, Hydra took almost 100% of the active players on the CL7 rosters of Illuminati and AWF, and it was almost harder for us to get the spot. "

You're aware that 0% of last leagues roster is still in 101st right? Arguing whether 44 or 56% are in Outlaws is pretty silly when 0% are left remaining in 101st. It wasn't one member throwing a hissy fit and leaving, it was the entire active/skilled portion of the clan leaving.


"Nauz pointed out how 5/9 players here are Outlaws. He very conveniently leaves out Kantos, who just so happens to be in 101st."

Kantos is a member of Lynx, not 101st, clanhopping doesn't change that.

"Oh and Nauz', dont start to act like a pr*ck by saying 101st has no competent player blablabla. There are 3 players who would surely slaughter you on MME SR. :p"

No Kaerox, there's not.

The only people in 101st that'd even compete are actually just Lynx alts. But even then, there's not three people in all of Lynx that'd slaughter. There's probably somewhere from 3-5 in Lynx that'd win a best of 7. But the number of people on the entire site that'd slaughter is 0. If you're a 2000+ elo player, you don't get slaughtered by anyone, no one gets over 60-70% winrate at best vs. skilled opponents. The only reason people win more than 70% on the ladder is because they're playing games like this:




HotBeachBum defeated The Shots 12109077 10/14/2016 19:12:14 The Shots: 1770
HotBeachBum defeated Kezzo 12087978 10/9/2016 17:04:46 Kezzo: 1804
HotBeachBum defeated malakkan 12081834 10/9/2016 16:03:12 malakkan: 1780
HotBeachBum defeated elbee 12017453 10/8/2016 04:37:13 elbee: 1815
HotBeachBum defeated telge 12076268 10/7/2016 18:36:05 telge: 1759
HotBeachBum defeated ♦ Drizzy Drake ♦ 12067419 10/5/2016 19:01:40 ♦ Drizzy Drake ♦: 1766
HotBeachBum defeated Jorgst 12046636 10/5/2016 09:18:28 Jorgst: 1758
HotBeachBum defeated RynoFury 12056119 10/3/2016 23:11:32 RynoFury: 1798
HotBeachBum defeated Boubou 12055256 10/3/2016 18:50:48 Boubou: 1842
doca defeated HotBeachBum 12045420 10/3/2016 16:41:46 doca: 1874
HotBeachBum defeated Odabasz Kapitány 12047178 10/3/2016 12:44:54 Odabasz Kapitány: 1823
HotBeachBum defeated ♦ Drizzy Drake ♦ 12045421 10/2/2016 16:52:00 ♦ Drizzy Drake ♦: 1766
HotBeachBum defeated graemes 12037044 10/2/2016 09:27:19 graemes: 1738

Those are bad opponents, that have no real chance of beating HBB. Everyone on the ladder that's high rated gets such games in which thay aren't actually being challenged or tested, which leads to inflated winrates.

Edited 10/16/2016 13:20:13

Clan league once again reaches an exestintial crisis:

"What is a clan?"

The very foundations of its meaning and purpose are questioned. Is a clan simply a few clicks of a mouse and $10? Or is it something greater than the observable pieces with which it is made. We may never know...

To hijack clan spot in division A should be called masterpiece.

Any argument based on skill is invalid.

Any argument based on who deserves what or how it would most likley play out in CL9 is invalid.

It does not matter what percentage of players is in which clan now.
In CL8 they all (100%) represented 101st. That is what they signed up for. If they wanted to represent Outlaws, they should ve played for Outlaws.

(if it mattered, what would happen if those Outlaws members that played for 101st now went back to 101st? Would Outlaws, a clan that never played in CL and contains no member that played in CL8 DivB still get a spot in CL9 DivA? In case they dont, what would happen if only 1 or 2 players went back to 101st? Where is the line and at what point would the decision be final?)

____________________________________________________________________________________________

While i think this decision was wrong, i highly doubt that the CL council made its decision based on any personal preferences. Its just an ungrateful job.

You stood absolutely 0% chance of coming anything but dead last in A next season.

101st playing in A would be laughable and a waste of your time. It'd also be demoralizing to the members of 101st to get so heavily bodied in every tournament.

Irrelevant.

Firstly, it's only an opinion. I happen to think otherwise, now what? We're at an impasse, so let's not get into a guessing game.

Secondly, it doesn't make the blindest bit of difference. The clan league is not run based on who some people think are good, or otherwise; it's done by which clan deserves to be there. Look at WG. A win percentage of under 15%. And yet no-one thinks they shouldn't be there, just due to performance. They earned the right in previous seasons, so they were in A this time.

Why in hell would then CL organizers/panel allow Lynx training academy to play the same division as Lynx?

As far as I'm concerned Lynx is upset they lost their puppet. They'd have gotten two votes for templates rather than one had 101st been in A. That'd allow them to largely control the clan league.

I'll deal with these two points as one, since they raise similar concerns. Quite frankly, it's not anyone else's concern how the two clans would run their set-up. For the record, I'll re-assure you and state that 101st would choose their own templates based on their own strengths in their own clan chat, and Lynx would do so separately. Please don't accuse a clan of bias based on what you guess might happen.

Additionally, look at the current situation. You have many people with accounts in multiple Division A clans, and yet there's no rulings against them, despite the fact that they have the ability to influence multiple votes. Take Masters for example; they've actively loaned out two players (Miyagi to Apex, and Master Turtle to Turtles) to other Division A clans, and they have MotD who has an account in Apex and is part of the Council. The current situation is far from perfect, so let's not get into a discussion about righteousness.

Clans don't earn things. Players do. Not one of the players that did so is still in 101st.

Okay, so if I set up my own clan with me, Mister T, Phaeril, MoD, Buns & Turkish (all players who will likely finish top 5, and who finished/will finish with 50%+ win records, then we're entitled to take our clan straight to Division A, right? Wrong, since our current performance is us representing our current clans. If you want to play an individual competition, go play WSOW or something of that ilk; the clan league is for you to work as a team to represent the clan.

It's true that when Lynx was made they were forced to start back at the bottom while 101st remained in A.

The precedent therefore implies that 101st should be in A next season.

Fuck the precedent.

So once you've made a decision the clan didn't particularly like, but accepted, the first time round, when a similar situation happens again do completely the opposite? That'll sure help.

After all the fighting we had to do to get Hydra to replace Illuminati in C, I find it appalling that it was so easy to steal a seat in A.

I must confess, I'm not familiar with this situation, so would appreciate enlightment, although from the tone of the rest of the post, it appears the council has disregarded a precedent that doesn't suit their decision? Is that correct?

The clan is nothing more than a collection of players.

At a simplistic level, perhaps. But that is what distinguishes the clan competition from an individual competition. Genuine question for you here; if there had been 10 members in 101st line-up, 5 of whom went to new Clan A, and 5 to new Clan B, who would be "entitled" to the spot.

The rest of this post is crap; you've decided that 101st aren't good enough, and that Outlaws are too good to start at the bottom and work their way up. That isn't how it works.

After season 7 all but one member of LEA's clan league team moved to ACME. The leadership of LEA was really cool about things and even offered to swap Divisions with us. but we were told that the spot belongs to the CLAN so even though essentially the entire team moved the CLAN keep the spot.

If true, then the council need to at least address why this was considered in their version of history.

If, however, right now, or after next season another similar scenario came up and it was handled the way it was in the past before this scenario - I'd call it out as being bullshit.

Well you've now got the initial 101st --> Lynx, Hydra, and LEA --> Acme situations, all handled differently, we no consistency, so there's little wonder there's allegations of favouritism.

It would be nice if everyone could follow outlaw's example and not post drama on this thread.

Outlaws have been claiming that spot as theirs for weeks, so let's no got portraying them as whiter than white. Besides, of course they're not going to be dramatic; they got what they wanted. If the boot was on the other foot you can bet your bottom dollar this thread would be the inverse of how it is now.

@Norman - I've half addressed your point earlier, when mentioning the current situation with people with accounts in multiple clans. But the point you make (whether Lynx & 101st can be in the same division) is not the same question that the council were asked to rule on here, and as such, should not be taken into account.

I would like to remind you guys, that with the new CLOT system, if a clan does good, he will basically play in division C. It's not like 101st has to play 5 seasons just to get to B again.

Same principal for Outlaws, then.

Does that mean that if Platinum had chosen to stay in 101st, and used his manager rights to kick all non-Outlaws players out of the clan, then you would have been entirely fine giving 101st the div A spot?

A completely separate issue that would need to be handled by the founder and funder of 101st and the dissenter, but not something that concerns external parties. Once they've decided to start a new clan they must, like every other new clan, start from the bottom and work their way up.

I personally feel like Outlaws deserves the spot right now especially when you look at has been happening in clan movements since the start of CL8 till the point where we are right now.

So what level of movement is required for the spot to transfer? Because whatever opinion you have, others will undoubtedly have different opinions; there's no right/wrong answer, so you're always going to end up with a problem.

edit:
@ox you can't compare the blitz stuff that happened between CL7 and CL8 since Masters were already participating themselves and they just recruited some Blitz players to play for them and masters never even bothered about a 2nd team so the Blitz spot was never in charge of anything.

So some movement is fine, but not other movement? Already, in your own post, you've shown the difficulties in trying to quantify what level and type of movement is/isn't acceptable.

"At a simplistic level, perhaps. But that is what distinguishes the clan competition from an individual competition. Genuine question for you here; if there had been 10 members in 101st line-up, 5 of whom went to new Clan A, and 5 to new Clan B, who would be "entitled" to the spot.
"

If half of last seasons lineup was still in 101st it'd be a completely different scenario, and one in which I'd support 101st remaining in A. But its entire lineup from last season has changed clans. 100% didn't move to Outlaws perhaps, but all of them left 101st. The only account still in 101st is there simply because it has been inactive since before Outlaws was made.

Edited 10/16/2016 13:53:08

Would it change your opinion if that one account was active? Or what about if their were 2 accounts in 101st? Therein lies the problem I'm alluding to; it's going to require a subjective decision to determine what is/isn't acceptable.

I usually don't post much on forums, but I feel like I have to express my strong discontent.

It shouldn't be about "what players" "deserve" a spot. It's the clan with it's history that earns it. 101st has a long history with ups and downs. They've been around for quite a while. And now, because some players of their CL8 roaster decide they are not d'accord with how the clan is run, they create their own clan and expect to get the CL9 spot of 101st. Ridiculous.

What if 44% of Turtles roaster decided to make their own clan? Would they get turtles spot and the rest of turtles would have to start over again from scratch? I bet not.

To me this is nothing more than a hijack. Backed by the council for whatever reasons.

If I'm not ok with how my clan is run and I don't see a way to change it, I leave the clan and look for something better. Or I create a new one (and start from the bottom - like all new clans). But I don't hijack it for gods sake.

"What if 44% of Turtles roaster decided to make their own clan? Would they get turtles spot and the rest of turtles would have to start over again from scratch? I bet not."

Mentioning 44% is irrelevant, unless in your scenario all of Turtles roster leaves Turtles, and 44% make a new clan together, while the other 56% go inactive, or join other clans.

This isn't at all the same as 44% leaving turtles while 56% remain in Turtles.

The people in Lynx angry right now, are largely the same people that were angry when Lynx had to start at the bottom while 101st remained in A.

I acknowledge that was a poor decision, and that Lynx should have started in A back then.

It was a sentiment that virtually everyone from Lynx who is currently throwing a fit agreed with then. For you to all flip sides now is frankly hypocritical and silly. It shows that all you really want is to come out on top of a scenario. You wanted one thing when it was Lynx vs. 101st, and now you want the exact opposite when it is Outlaws vs. 101st.

Alas, the CL panel isn't comprised of the same people it was when Lynx was created, which is why the decision now is different than it was then.

Edited 10/16/2016 14:28:45

I apologise if I'm wrong here, but did CL ever approach 101st for their side? as far as I know, by the time they got asked, if they were even asked, MotD said he'd pretty much already made up his mind already. How can you make up your mind after hearing only one side of the story?

Tbh, not that lynx would ever use 101st to try and give us an unfair advantage, but I would understand if you kept 101st in B, to stop lynx and 101st being in the same division as Tbest said, also since no current 101st helped get 101st into A, I could agree that they don't deserve the A spot, but they definitely did get the B spot without outlaws help. I can't understand outlaws getting a division A spot. They didn't exist before this clan league. You say Kantos was in lynx at the start of this clan league... well hate to point out that the whole of outlaws was in 101st, so by your own logic, there were 0 slots filled by outlaws. Outlaws is a new clan, they knew this when they left 101st, they should start from the bottom. Just because they've represented a clan for 1 season doesn't give them the right to be in A, in another clan. Meanwhile clans like M'hunters have been in CL much longer than outlaws members and have only just got to B.

Edited 10/16/2016 15:08:04

I wrote that this morning when i checked this thread :D

Edit: i had nothing to do with that decision. But i would have done it exactly the way the panel decided.

Edited 10/16/2016 14:49:39

@Hades

When Lynx was created, and forced to start at the bottom, did you agree with the decision?

If you didn't, (which virtually no one in Lynx did) then you should agree with this decision.

The problem seems to be people in Lynx basically are just angry they didn't get what they wanted, even though they wanted to get what Outlaws got when they were in the position Outlaws is now in.

Edited 10/16/2016 15:11:59

Yeah I agree with Semice, Outlaws don't need to post anything but they already got everything they wanted, those snotty little brats ;)

Could you imagine, if 101st got the spot, how many posts this thread would have.

Sorry MoD, didnt realise you had nothing to do with the decision, I'll leave you out of it.

Nauz, well when lynx was created, 101st had no issue giving lynx the spot, they wanted to give lynx the spot. Yet Lynx, despite being the same people, had to start from the bottom. I wasn't in lynx at the time, but if a clan is willing to give its spot to another clan, where the other clan is made up of members who have represented the clan for multiple seasons, then yes, I'd agree that CL made a mistake.

Here, Outlaws separated from 101st, and have somehow got the 101st spot, after playing for 1 season, somehow the fact 101st have spent 6 seasons in Cl to be in that position was ignored. 101st didn't want outlaws to have the spot, if they had wanted outlaws to have the spot, and CL had given it to 101st, then that would be the same scenario as the lynx/101st one. Instead, not only was the decision reversed to give outlaws the spot, but 101st didnt want them to have the spot either, they've completely hijacked the spot.

And lets not pretend outlaws wouldn't cause drama if they didnt get what they wanted, I mean last time they didnt get what they wanted they left a clan and formed a complete new one... which somehow now has the original clans clan league spot...

nauz, you sure shill a lot for the outlaws considering how much they hate your guts

Ox don't derail this to personal attacks please.
So far, the discussion is (almost unbelievably, considering usual WL forum conditions) largely aimed to be on the point. Kudos to all for keeping it this way.

Edited 10/16/2016 15:29:38

Go be a good boy and run back to Zero so he can tell you how to respond.
You're his bitch boy. The clan's nothing but a puppet, and he pulls your strings.
I don't consider you a friend of anyone, you're a selfish prick who uses people.
I've seen the way Zero interacts with everyone. He treats people as if they are expendable objects.

My comment pales in comparison to the amount of defamation Nauz has attempted to pull off in this thread alone.

A claim has to be false in order for it to qualify a defamation.

Zero is friend only to Zero.

Tactical gave him the password to an ingame account so he could take turns in a team game. Zero decided to log into Tactical's skype, which had a similar (1 digit difference) password. He then went through all of Tactical's private messages.

That's not the action of a friend. It's the action of a despicable piece of shit who cares about no one but themself. He then had the audacity to try and claim he only did it to see if Tactical said anything bad about him. As if that somehow makes it alright. He's a fucking sociopath.

Let me lick your tears, Good Kid.