hey that's my awesome MASTER template collection! Praise the Lord someone uses it!

some of them really suck, also there shouldnt be auto distribution on a ladder, and no links to games :/

Please dont use the same polling system that ps does.

@Ben - you should remove ones that are not good (like mentioned auto dist). Also ones that are already on there or already suggested. Otherwise you make more work for Fizzer. I would say people should really only have 3-4 good ones to suggest, as he won't add dozens of them.


I think 10-15 templates is the max we should have really. Otherwise people will have too much to learn. Or maybe replace the 1-2 on there that are not good first. Then in a few months add a few new ones or something, so it isn't a ton to learn at once.

@Fizzer:

Anyone with ladder access will be allowed to vote.

Even if they never even played a game on the ladder? I think there should be a minimum number of games played on the rt ladder to be allowed to vote

Edited 4/16/2016 02:02:04

Don't do this way fizzer, many alts will be allowed to vote then...

Anyone with ladder access will be allowed to vote.

Will there be alt tracking? Many people have multiple ladder-eligible accounts...

Fizzer, are you going to list all of the templates in one long list and have people vote, or will you break it out by template type (one poll for LD, one for MA, one for commanders, etc)? Also, how many templates are you planning to select for the RT ladder (or will this be a question in one of the polls)?

If I suggest a Local Deployments template, is there a possibility of us winding up with 2 LD templates on that ladder (this is something I'd like to avoid)?

I would imagine we would vote by category. Only thing that makes sense for the RT ladder.
Also PLEASE make a executive decision and allow only one template on each map

Edited 4/16/2016 03:33:40

There's so many earth maps...

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10700776

A game from the template posted earlier
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=780139

2v2 Seasonal ladder anytime soon?

1. https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10573076
2. RDR Risky Income
3. Both

Two other things to put on the poll:

1. Attack only, transfer only, attack by % on the 3v3 ladder (I believe transfer only is already there)

2. Bring back 0%WR on the 1v1 ladder, unless you put it on RT Ladder. Since I doubt you will do either, here's my argument:

- The new template is too easy to expand on.

- People pick the same things, repetitive games.

- If you get your 6th pick (126), you've most likely won the game.

- The enthuasiasm on the new template is much lower, top players don't play it anymore.

- The new ladder is perfect for runs, the template gets boring after 20 or so games.

- The original warlight game was meant to simulate war, not chess.

- In the old ladder, you have to adjust to everything, micromanagement is much much harder.

Here's proof that the community likes WR better:

https://www.warlight.net/Forum/103738-time-remove-luck-strategic-templates?Offset=0

Edited 4/16/2016 11:38:48

Two other things to put on the poll:

1. Attack only, transfer only, attack by % on the 3v3 ladder (I believe transfer only is already there)

2. Bring back 0%WR on the 1v1 ladder, unless you put it on RT Ladder. Since I doubt you will do either, here's my argument:

- The new template is too easy to expand on.

- People pick the same things, repetitive games.

- If you get your 6th pick (126), you've most likely won the game.

- The enthuasiasm on the new template is much lower, top players don't play it anymore.

- The new ladder is perfect for runs, the template gets boring after 20 or so games.

- The original warlight game was meant to simulate war, not chess.

- In the old ladder, you have to adjust to everything, micromanagement is much much harder.

1. Yeah it should be. In my opinion fizzer has the wrong idea about not including strategic features because it is not noob friendly. To play the ladder you need a very high level, by then surely they know how to play with most features.

2.

- Its easier to expand on SR than WR (thats obvious to everyone), but there are games where you just can't afford to expand.

- People picked similar things in ME WR, though its true people tried crazier picks in it which could actually work, like triple west china.

- If you got 1 2 6 on ME WR you also likely win the game.

- Enthuasism is lower? Yeah sure list me some top players who specifically don't play the ladder anymore because of the changes, not because they were growing tired of warlight. I doubt you can get past 10.

- Another bad point, perfect for runs? The ladder system makes it perfect for runs, not the template.

- Meh point.

- Fair point, it was more taking into account attacks failing instead of calculating that you will have enough income and armies to take a bonus in a turn or two ahead.


It's not being changed back to WR, I don't see why you guys still try. And just to state it, I like both variants of the ladder. Only thing I think is much worse in my opinion is east US in MME.

Post-Melt Antarctica
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10467150
I'm suggesting it for the realtime ladder, but I wouldn't mind it being a seasonal template either.

@buns:

1. MoD
2. Myself
3. Timinator
4. MotD
5. Jefferspin (I already feel bad about calling him a top player)
6. AG (This one hurts more)
7. Miyagi
8. Gui
9. GreenTea (Idk this one for sure, but he hasn't joined ladder since it turned SR)
10. Sephiroth (alright this one hurt the most to call a top player)

It's not a valid point for another reason: Ladders aren't just for top players, they're for everyone. This ladder is easier to learn, therefore is easier for everyone. Just because 10+ top players would withhold themselves from competing doesn't mean the change is bad.

^ Piggy?
Gnuff?
Beelz?

It's not a valid point for another reason: Ladders aren't just for top players, they're for everyone. This ladder is easier to learn, therefore is easier for everyone. Just because 10+ top players would withhold themselves from competing doesn't mean the change is bad.

Fair enough I suppose. I said that because I just don't have the motivation anymore to play.

Personally I prefer the new 1v1 ladder settings. I think MME is better than ME since there are more viable picks, East US would never have gotten chosen on the old ladder. The 0% SR also makes the +5 bonuses much more viable options, so there are fewer games with only 6 halfway-decent picks. Also there are no longer situations in which you can have a coin flip determine who wins, for instance if you need to issue 3 attacks of 3 to take a bonus and still have enough armies left to defend another bonus, if your attacks succeed you win, otherwise you lose.

I also agree the 2v2 ladder should have 4 picks.

For the seasonal ladder, I think it would be very interesting to combine commanders with heavy fog. I don't know exactly how such a template would work, it certainly wouldn't be purely strategic, but I think it would be a lot of fun. To me, the 1v1, 2v2, and RT ladders are mostly about strategy, while the seasonal ladder should be used more for rather exotic templates that might not otherwise be played.

Edited 4/17/2016 01:38:59

^ Piggy?
Gnuff?
Beelz?

All 3 are invalid. Piggy quit long before SR Ladder was a thing. If you're about to link me to a post in which Piggy rants about the SR Ladder, that's Gui using Piggy's account.

Gnuffles has been retired as well, long before SR Ladder

Same with Beelz.

In regards to comparing the 2: WR Ladder was better for the map type. In a situation that is fluid (IE: doesn't depend on any one style such as brawls, expansion, etc.), WR tends to be better since you're forced to balance risk management. SR makes more sense on bigger maps due to the fact you're incentivized to explore the map (That is, move in a way to scout information), and in brawls you can actually count how to fight appropriately (although brawl-specific templates will usually incorporate small reinforcements, +armies per territory or something in order to help create different ways to fight)

ME itself is a map that doesn't fit a style, but is too small to encourage scouting for information, so WR just makes more sense.

MME has some problems such as East US and East Russia imo, which become a bit more noticeable in SR since it's not even a risk to go for them in some scenarios.

Overall, ME WR is good, MME SR is alright.