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Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 17:03:16


knyte 
Level 58
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I'm opening Optimum (https://www.warlight.net/Clans/?ID=202) to developers and anyone else interested in expanding the Warlight metagame.

What it's about:

I made Optimum because while the core Warlight game works well and has a ton of wortwhile features, the same can't be said about the metagame or virtually all community/metagame-related features. CLOT hasn't taken off, tournaments offer a very limited range of options, clans are heavily constrained by limited software infrastructure, and all of the big community leagues (Clan League, Promotion/Relegation, Clan Challenge League, etc.) are run manually.

I'm trying to tackle three of those four things- CLOT, tournaments, leagues, etc.- by (slowly) developing an alternative to the CLOT framework that requires less effort/understanding to set up and offers more options. (If you're interested in helping out there, PM me with your GitHub username and I'll add you to the group).

But on the clans end, I see a lot of potential that has yet to be leveraged:

  • Clans have the potential to serve as a strong player development and retention pipeline. I don't think they do this yet.

  • Few clans offer tangible benefits. A good portion of these aren't open to the vast majority of the playerbase.

  • A lot of people come in with no idea of how to improve or never stumble across some exciting aspects of the metagame- like the independent leagues, sometimes not even the ladders. There's a lot of luck and effort involved, and very often people just end up getting sucked into the 1v1 auto-game vortex or into bad real-time diplomacy games.


So Optimum exists. The point of Optimum is to develop features like:

  • Automated real-time matchmaking for members

  • Interesting leagues run with minimal human effort

  • Regular user-tracking to monitor growth and maintain awareness (for clan leaders)

  • A more straightforward learning environment

  • A stronger community platform

  • Opportunities for players to easily (hyper)specialize and focus on one aspect of the game


The endgame of this project is to extend what Fizzer built with better community tools and to tie them into the site using browser extensions (and hopefully other, less clunky methods) to develop Warlight's metagame into what it could be.

In that process, I see Optimum as a sort of "Warlight+ Beta" where we can use a single clan (hopefully a decent-sized set of players) to test these features and work out the kinks. Once we get past this stage (which I'll somewhat appropriately label Optimum Alpha), I'd like to open up the clan to anyone motivated to learn/improve at/play the game (regardless of skill level) because that's the group I'm interested in targeting.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to actually do all this alone. So I'm opening up Optimum right now to anyone interested in helping out. You don't have to be a developer- just anyone interested in improving the community. Build/test some manual leagues, share ideas, etc.- we just need to tackle this problem together if we want to solve it.

So, if interested, PM me. If you're a dev, include your GitHub username so I can add you to a related GitHub group (that's mostly empty right now except for the old 1v1 ladder CLOT repository and the beginnings of CSL).

Edited 11/5/2015 17:06:03
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 17:18:10


Prabster Realm
Level 58
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Good luck knyte
consists of great features and well organised hope things go good and you even thou you have less time may able to start rowing the boat of your dreams again
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 17:40:32


Riveath
Level 59
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All I can say is good luck.

I have no time (nor abilities) to spare, so unfortunately I can't help you in another way than supporting you inside my brain.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 17:42:21


Dublin Warrior 
Level 49
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Knyte, you have my best wishes for you and your clan. :)
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 17:43:19


SirSalty
Level 49
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Good Luck:)
If I had an alt I'd help you, but unfortunately I don't.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 17:48:58


ps 
Level 60
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seems over-ambitious.

and why do you need a clan for that?
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 17:54:27


knyte 
Level 58
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@ps:

- as a beta-testing environment to find/use willing players to test new features on

- to build/maintain a venue where any player can come in to improve themselves or at least play the game a lot

- as a proof-of-concept (if it works, it's not only an argument that the community should adopt some of its practices but also hopefully some reasons for Fizzer to expand the API and focus on clans again)

It's also a somewhat unrelated project to build the optimal clan for game-focused player growth and to fully leverage the potential of the clan metagame.

Edited 11/5/2015 17:54:43
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:18:40


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I joined with my alt. I don't know if a clan is the best way to organize this effort, but I will participate in any way I can help.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:26:33


knyte 
Level 58
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The clan isn't the primary tool. There's a GitHub group for the development side of things but it seems like people here have a particular reluctance to do much off-site.

Ideally this would happen with a Slack + GitHub group but I don't think that's going to be as easy since it's all offsite.

Edited 11/5/2015 18:30:23
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:30:38


Nogals 
Level 58
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can I join with my alt?
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:36:41


knyte 
Level 58
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Yes, as long as you provide some sort of input. Right now it's not a real clan as much as laying the foundation for one so I'm not going to impose any rules as long as we don't get trolls or junk threads.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:42:46


Nogals 
Level 58
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What sort of input are you looking for?
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:43:01


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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Personally I like the idea of using a clan, but then I wasn't in a clan before hand. The issue may be that some players may want to get involved but are already in other clans, but in a way that may help make sure those who join are focused on the task at hand :)

Plus don't be haters, this is a project that will take a lot of work and is being built to help the whole Warlight community. As it's clan-based it needs to be properly tested before implementation. Knyte originally was going to keep the whole clan closed but has graciously opened it up to others that may wish to particitate. If you don't want to leave your clan but you still want to contribute then you would be more than welcome, there are many members of clans already working together on this.

I realise no-one has been overly negative and constructive critisism is welcome, I just want to nip this in the bud before the flaming starts is all ;)

@ps: Goals should always be over-ambitious, else they would just be tasks ;)
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:44:27


Riveath
Level 59
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Well, depends on what kind of help you want. If you wish to, I'll also join with an alt.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:46:43


knyte 
Level 58
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@Nogals et al: generally, ideas or any comments based on your own experiences. I've found it worthwhile to interact with the user whenever developing a product. Of course, if you're a developer or have some sort of experience contributing to the WL metagame, that background helps too.

Basically any sort of feedback is welcome.

Edited 11/5/2015 18:49:10
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:50:21


Nogals 
Level 58
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personally I've been with only 3 clans. Well I was technically in 4 clans, but the one was before clans become offical with warlight. So pretty much what I can offer is experience.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 18:54:59


knyte 
Level 58
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It doesn't have to be about clans. You almost certainly have a lot of competitive experience; that probably helps just as much, if not a lot more.

The point of Optimum is not to build just another clan to compete with existing clans.

Edited 11/5/2015 18:55:33
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 19:07:06


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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From my perspective I really want to help develop the front end of Warlight, hopefully tying all the features into a browser extension (much like the "Clean up your Desktop" script) so that everything is easily available to players.

Essentially, features we ask Fizzer to add, we want to put in ourselves.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 19:08:43


knyte 
Level 58
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I think it'd be a little simpler than the userscript (well beyond the boilerplate) since all we'd have to do initially is insert links to off-site resources (like adding CLOT links on the Ladders page).

Edited 11/5/2015 19:09:02
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 19:13:53


MightySpeck (a Koala) 
Level 58
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I'll help you out with test and can probably make up some ideas on my own. (will be joining with an alt though) ((i also have to make one :/))

Very excited to see what we can accomplish with this.

Edited 11/5/2015 19:14:46
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 19:42:23


Rogue Nikolai Krogius
Level 58
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I would join as a competitve member (I hate programing) but you would need to be in at least division C in Clan League and have a strong strategic base and/or people who are motivated to learn.
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 19:51:45


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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That would be a long way off, right now it's about developing the software that's available to us. Building a general clan will be way after that! ;D
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 19:53:23


Riveath
Level 59
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Well, I know little about programming (just the basics) but I'm still learning. I'd be happy to get in with my alt and give you some feedback :)
Launching Optimum: 11/5/2015 20:10:08


Nogals 
Level 58
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I know Python, Java, C, assembly, VHDL and MATLAB(if it counts)

I'm not what the exact aim of this project is but it sounds interesting. Message me and I'll send you my alt's info.
Launching Optimum: 11/6/2015 05:33:56

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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Not sure what you're going for, but I screw around quite a bit with Python and Java, so if needed I could help.
Launching Optimum: 11/6/2015 06:25:01


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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I don't think you can say CLOTs haven't taken off. I know ps, unknownsoldier and Krzychu have done some successful CLOTs back in the day.

The randomized bonuses CLOT has about 1800 games so far and still sees regular activity. Can the framework be used by someone who has no software development experience? Probably not. It still is bloody awesome though!
Launching Optimum: 11/6/2015 06:37:07


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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This response comes from someone who is into strategic games. If the OP was from a diplomacy game perspective, please skip my entire post!


"""
So Optimum exists. The point of Optimum is to develop features like:
Automated real-time matchmaking for members
"""

This could be a nice feature. Depends on how you plan to implement it though. I think this needs to be warlight wide, not via a clan.




"""
Interesting leagues run with minimal human effort
"""

Interested to see what you come up with here. Definitely a pain point today.




"""
Regular user-tracking to monitor growth and maintain awareness (for clan leaders)
"""

I don't get why you would need this. Why does a clan need to track anything? Once you admit someone into the clan, as long as they stay active and are not offensive/cheats, they are part of your community. Please stop judging them ;)




"""
A more straightforward learning environment
"""

I don't think it is that hard to improve your skill level in this game if you are really interested. The ladders provide a great platform to learn. In my opinion the problem lies with the individual not being proactive enough to improve. I've seen some great examples of players who wanted to learn, ask what they could have done better and are great players today. Most top players are quite open to playing random games with anyone who invites them with the aim of getting better at the game. Have you tried inviting someone better than you to a game?




"""
A stronger community platform
"""

Clans of today offer quite a strong community. I'm in two of them. We have great banter and are always learning something off of each other. Most players on Warlight always speak highly of their clan and it's community. I know you're looking for fancy features, but just a chat game and an internal forum can be enough to have so much fun on Warlight.




With that being said, I wish you well with what you're trying to do. I'm not trying to dampen your spirits. I just think you've not yet experienced the sort of clan you're actually looking for. And believe me, it is out there!
Launching Optimum: 11/6/2015 06:40:22


knyte 
Level 58
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CLOTs/etc. are still used by a very small minority of players and there hasn't been a proliferation of ladder alternatives.

Honestly, the framework isn't that hard to use- in fact, someone could just fork your repo and modify some very trivial things (could even be trivially modified to have a single file storing that data and everything else reading that file). The issue is that it takes a lot to make it do some rather simple stuff; also I disagree with quite a few of the design decisions (like using webapp2 or tying it to Google App Engine) and don't think they contribute to the quality.

@japan77: if you have a GitHub, I could add you to the repo. Things should pick up in there starting tomorrow night.
Launching Optimum: 11/6/2015 06:42:55


CaptainCliche
Level 53
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Sounds 2 Spooky 4 Me


Launching Optimum: 11/6/2015 12:22:05


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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