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Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 14:53:29


Fan the Apostle
Level 56
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2.00.0: - Added points/levels system. See the blog/wiki for full details. - Added advertisements. Members can turn them off on the settings tab. - Added volume controls for sound and music. - Added an open seat prerequisite on level. - Added a "template revert" system that makes templates easier to use. When selecting a template that uses features you don't have access to (luck modifier, custom scenarios, etc.), instead of just getting an "access denied" message, you'll now get a message telling you what features the template uses that you don't have, and have an option to revert just those features and use the rest unchanged. - Color conflicts are now resolved by level. If levels are the same, then it reverts to the old method of giving color priority to the older account. - Name changes are now allowed every 5 levels instead of every 20 days. This allows easy name changes when a player is new and not well-known, but makes them more infrequent for well-known players. - The ladder forum is now restricted to players who can play in the ladders. - If a ranked game ends up with uneven teams, it will now automatically be changed to a practice game. - When playing cards from the receive card dialog, it no longer opens the cards dialog. Also, if you play a card that doesn't have any additional UI (i.e. reinforcement card), the receive card dialog won't close and the button will just change to "Played" - When attempting to create a tournament without auto-boot, the game now tells you that enabling auto-boot is usually a good idea for tournaments. - Fixed a bug when changing someone's color while viewing their territory picks that made the little stars not change color. - Fixed a bug with facebook signin/sharing that sometimes caused an error. - The surrender prompt will now come up multiple times for the same player in the same game if they surrender multiple times (i.e. say they turn into an AI that surrenders). - Fixed a bug that caused multi-line chat by a blacklisted player to only show the first line after you unhid it. - Fixed a bug that could cause an error if you held down the Home key on a manual distribution game, as it could cause the client to download your picks multiple times. - Fixed a bug that caused the number of armies on the map to change if you changed someone's color after committing your armies. - Fixed a bug that caused the progress bar to expand when it reached 90%+ - Android/iOS: When searching for players to add to a game, the results are now opened in their own screen. - Android/iOS: When selecting an order in the orders list, any territory you had selected is now de-selected. - Android/iOS: Fixed a bug that caused errors on maps that had unicode characters in territory names. - Android/iOS: Fixed a bug that caused an error if you deleted orders from the orders list too quickly. - Android/iOS: The right column icon now points in when it's open. - Android: Fixed a bug that, in rare cases, caused an error when clicking the back button.


This is the changelog for WL 2.0 where clans were first mentioned.

Now talking to clans , There has been no update to them whatsoever , It may seem fine too keep it like that for some clans.there are 200ish clams today , so you'd expect some update to happen right?

No. fizzer , seems from 3.x updates seem to be focusing on coin-based features. Well coins are quite a big feature so i'll forgive him for that.. ':) . But the 2.x updates after that seem to have no update whatsoever to clans.

The clan thing/problem/issue/whatever

For small clans this does not concern this at all.

However , clans that are big with stupidly complex systems of ranks are super difficult to manage. Especially for thing such as *cough* Rearrgements. The titles are a cheap substitute to this problem but it has limitations , like 20 letters Max. The system for clans are the leader having all privelages and the members have no power whatsoever.This is working in all ways possible.

If Fizzer is not investing on clans why hasn't the price changed $15? That's the same as a membership. Well , I'd buy a membership rather than a clan (well , if I had the coins ).

Discuss
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 15:32:46


MightySpeck (a Koala) 
Level 58
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(203 clans at the moment.)

and maybe fizzer's next update is for clans? who knows? maybe Mercer?
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 15:38:27

MrHymen
Level 56
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maybe


This thread shows one thing. That Fizzer really needs to give us an idea of what he's working on. Even if it's stuff he never finishes or throws out the window, an idea of his "Roadmap" would help imo.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 16:17:57


LoshadinyiHren
Level 54
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was too lazy to read that all sorry
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 16:31:30


knyte 
Level 58
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Fizzer has consistently refused to update clans because he's focusing on features that are going to attract new members + clans don't represent a substantial portion of the playerbase.

So basically he's refusing to fix clans because clans suck right now.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 16:52:14


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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He only updates stuff that gives him more $$$. So coin games and stuff that attracts more puppies to fill his wallet.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 17:25:23


knyte 
Level 58
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I think the takeaway from all this is that we need to develop the infrastructure we want ourselves, as a community. Fizzer seems constrained by a set of incentives that forces him into very shortsighted thinking when it comes to developing WL.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 17:31:18


Fan the Apostle
Level 56
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I shall start learning HTML5 and C++
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 17:33:52


Fan the Apostle
Level 56
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Fizzer Brain

Normal things Related to WL updates : moar ppl = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$ = greed

When he is with Mercer : What do u want to do Mercer?

When he is productive : $$$$$$$$$
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 17:41:54


[ESP] Pablo García
Level 58
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Stop complaining, really. Could they be better? Maybe. But I can live perfectly without clan improvements, as long as Fizzer is working on other things.

However, as @MrHymen said, it would be really good if Fizzer updated somewhere the projects he has on mind / he is working on.

Edited 11/1/2015 17:42:39
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 19:52:30


berdan131
Level 56
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We should be greatful that there aren't any bad updates which make players leave, like it was with tibia or runescape :)
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 19:53:28


master of desaster 
Level 65
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you mean like changing the 1vs1 ladder from wr to sr? *cough deadpiggy cough*
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 20:16:54


knyte 
Level 58
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What I'm surprised by is that no one's taken advantage of that opportunity to push a CLOT (or similar setup) where it's just the old 1v1 ladder settings. I don't know of anyone else working on anything like that (and my version is going to take a little bit of time b/c college + I'm going to be building it on the not-yet-complete CSL framework).

But we seriously have the opportunity to take the ladder system away from Fizzer's control right now, and I personally think he's going to go with that setup too once there's a solid proof of concept. WL already has the ability to generate a list of CLOTs due to the CLOT verification/authentication system.

Edited 11/1/2015 20:18:07
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 20:44:38


Des {TJC}
Level 58
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+1 MoD
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 20:53:59


MightySpeck (a Koala) 
Level 58
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    Fizzer Brain

    Normal things Related to WL updates : moar ppl = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$ = greed

    When he is with Mercer : What do u want to do Mercer?

    When he is productive : $$$$$$$$$

    He only updates stuff that gives him more $$$. So coin games and stuff that attracts more puppies to fill his wallet.


these are both over exaggerated, lets be honest fizzer is does not have a swimming pool of money (or a puddle for that matter) so if fizzer needs to make more money so he can do this as a full time job, than i am fine that a couple of things get pushed back (like overhauls of Diplos, Clans, Ladders)

also +1 Knyte, i don't know why there aren't more clots right now. (and one for the old 1v1 ladder)
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 20:55:02


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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knyte: "End the monopoly! It's time for the workers to have victory! Down with the state! We will no longer be slaves!"
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:01:31


Angry Panda
Level 33
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knyte is a dangerous Marx-Leninist revolutionary I knew it!
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:03:51


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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I am not saying Fizzer is doing a bad job, but he said he can live with the money he gets from WL, so maybe he could put just a bit more effort into the community... maybe just a bit?
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:05:47


knyte 
Level 58
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I don't know whether Fizzer has another job. If WarLight is his only job, he's basically forced to do what he's doing now- try to expand it first so he's got enough money to take risks with. He can't be expected to do everything, even if it's technologically trivial, because users are a complicated beast and he's got to worry about them first.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:22:10


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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AOE clan is in the process of solving this issue with a Senate and Republic system of democracy. Senators can get voted out of power in our Elections. Head Proctor (head of the clan) can get impeached. We also have monthly opinion polls so Senators and the Head Proctor know how citizens view them and their policies. The system has its growing pains, but I am confident it will work out.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:24:22

E Masterpierround
Level 56
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Clearly you don't understand his point. You can have all the titles you want, that doesn't change the fact that actual power in a clan is all or nothing. Either you have MR or you don't. Also, if anyone remembers the old UN clan or the reason for the founding of LN, you know that having MR being transferred in elections is a TERRIBLE idea.

Edited 11/1/2015 21:26:09
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:28:21


knyte 
Level 58
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^^ That might solve some issues, but none of those are the core issues with clans. The inability to implement through software a governance system based on the premise that clans represent some sort of political body doesn't seem to be the chief limiting factor in WL clans' ability to deliver value to their members.

@Panda: also, I'm a situationist, not a Leninist :P

Edited 11/1/2015 21:28:47
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:41:58


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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I think you have to consider the assumption: is a clan a political body. If it is and always has been then yes your point is valid. However, what if the clan as designed by Fizzer was never meant to be a political body (I should specify a democratic political body).
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 21:51:15


knyte 
Level 58
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To be blunt, I think that it's incredibly stupid to model a clan based on any form of government. Government frameworks exist to solve particular problems, none of which are inherent in the clan framework.

Edited 11/1/2015 21:51:53
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 22:05:23


BanaNa
Level 30
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+1 Knyte
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 22:08:31


Angry Panda
Level 33
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knyte, roleplay can be conceived as part of any clan "framework", if they want to copy any form of government and implement it into their clan, they are free to choose what they want, none of us should judge them about this, this is pointless.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 22:10:51


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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I just liked how there was far less drama about clan politics when clans weren't official things.
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 22:22:14


Hai Guise Wahts Uhp?
Level 35
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maybe if u want democracy clan then have one person who dosent rolplay as democracy and just leads clan?
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 22:24:37


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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Well, when it comes between integrating a fancy government that allows the regular members of the clan to have the most input, compared to one or two supreme leaders of a clan that give the players the best experience, I choose the latter.

One of my favourite lines of ERB is "It's a country - not a company!" For clans, take this line, but reverse it. It's a company - not a country! Imagine that clans are company based, and that there are a few people providing services for the clanmates, and those clanmates' needs must be fulfilled. If I were the leaders of Illuminati, I'd be thinking "Ok, so what can I do to ensure that Illuminati can outperform any clans that provide a similar experience to us?" Imagine your recruits as your "customers", and you must give them the best WL experience as possible. Better than not having a clan at all, and better than being in any other clan in your field.

When asking CORP members what they like about the clan, one of the most recurring themes was "I like how we don't have to help maintain the clan at all, but still get delivered". Setting up government/country modelled clans, is the absolute opposite of this. Players must actually put effort into how the clan is run, and some either don't have the time, or don't care.

Edited 11/1/2015 22:25:34
Clans are stupidly underdeveloped: 11/1/2015 22:55:06


knyte 
Level 58
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+1 Ox

@Panda: roleplay mechanisms are not the same thing as the framework you need for day-to-day operation and growth. If everyone at a company wants to fantasize about My Little Pony, that's great, but it's not worthwhile to remodel the entire company infrastructure around My Little Pony instead of just building a separate RP infrastructure.

@Lolowut: the difference in attitude b/w apex and Falcons helps explain that- before the official system, clans weren't swarmed with the sort of people that didn't know how to play the actual game and just hung around trying to get fancy titles; hence apex has no visible management issues while the Falcons/etc. have a ton

Edited 11/1/2015 22:57:10
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