Clearly you don't understand his point. You can have all the titles you want, that doesn't change the fact that actual power in a clan is all or nothing. Either you have MR or you don't. Also, if anyone remembers the old UN clan or the reason for the founding of LN, you know that having MR being transferred in elections is a TERRIBLE idea.

Edited 11/1/2015 21:26:09

^^ That might solve some issues, but none of those are the core issues with clans. The inability to implement through software a governance system based on the premise that clans represent some sort of political body doesn't seem to be the chief limiting factor in WL clans' ability to deliver value to their members.

@Panda: also, I'm a situationist, not a Leninist :P

Edited 11/1/2015 21:28:47

I think you have to consider the assumption: is a clan a political body. If it is and always has been then yes your point is valid. However, what if the clan as designed by Fizzer was never meant to be a political body (I should specify a democratic political body).

To be blunt, I think that it's incredibly stupid to model a clan based on any form of government. Government frameworks exist to solve particular problems, none of which are inherent in the clan framework.

Edited 11/1/2015 21:51:53

+1 Knyte

knyte, roleplay can be conceived as part of any clan "framework", if they want to copy any form of government and implement it into their clan, they are free to choose what they want, none of us should judge them about this, this is pointless.

I just liked how there was far less drama about clan politics when clans weren't official things.

maybe if u want democracy clan then have one person who dosent rolplay as democracy and just leads clan?

Well, when it comes between integrating a fancy government that allows the regular members of the clan to have the most input, compared to one or two supreme leaders of a clan that give the players the best experience, I choose the latter.

One of my favourite lines of ERB is "It's a country - not a company!" For clans, take this line, but reverse it. It's a company - not a country! Imagine that clans are company based, and that there are a few people providing services for the clanmates, and those clanmates' needs must be fulfilled. If I were the leaders of Illuminati, I'd be thinking "Ok, so what can I do to ensure that Illuminati can outperform any clans that provide a similar experience to us?" Imagine your recruits as your "customers", and you must give them the best WL experience as possible. Better than not having a clan at all, and better than being in any other clan in your field.

When asking CORP members what they like about the clan, one of the most recurring themes was "I like how we don't have to help maintain the clan at all, but still get delivered". Setting up government/country modelled clans, is the absolute opposite of this. Players must actually put effort into how the clan is run, and some either don't have the time, or don't care.

Edited 11/1/2015 22:25:34

+1 Ox

@Panda: roleplay mechanisms are not the same thing as the framework you need for day-to-day operation and growth. If everyone at a company wants to fantasize about My Little Pony, that's great, but it's not worthwhile to remodel the entire company infrastructure around My Little Pony instead of just building a separate RP infrastructure.

@Lolowut: the difference in attitude b/w apex and Falcons helps explain that- before the official system, clans weren't swarmed with the sort of people that didn't know how to play the actual game and just hung around trying to get fancy titles; hence apex has no visible management issues while the Falcons/etc. have a ton

Edited 11/1/2015 22:57:10

That's exactly why CORP works and say, Falcons (it's exactly the pompatic democracy-like government) collapsed.

CORP's still got the vestigial stuff- a lot of it, to the point where it can still screw over the clan down the road.

Also very much this. It got hijacked quite a lot in the past.. with loads of drama involved, of course.

But hopefully it won't happen again. (unless Achilles comes back ofc ^^)

knyte, remember this is only a game, comparing clans to a company? come on, no need to think this too seriously.

Lol does Achilles still have MR?

See, CORP sans Kazuki being in charge would probably be about as good as a scaled WL clan could get at maintaining stable day-to-day operations. But until that happens, y'all are basically trying to build the Internet on a planet with really short chrons- just waiting to get destroyed by geomagnetic reversal.

@Panda: ... and that's why you're not allowed to touch Manager Rights ever again :P There's a difference between not dicking around and "taking things too seriously." I'd argue that the people who build NationStates on top of WL's clan infrastructure are the ones taking things too seriously while those of us just ignoring all the political stuff and focusing on the game are the ones who're actually having fun.

Edited 11/1/2015 23:25:35

Nah, Achilles doesn't have MR anymore... I'm talking about a potential opportunity for Achilles to hijack Kazuki's account again... though I doubt it, he's inactive for ~2.5 months already.

Edited 11/1/2015 23:27:47

I think Kazuki changed his password after the last time, so you should be good on that although it's hilarious that your critical weakness is the formal leader of the clan.

Edited 11/1/2015 23:31:26

Can we please not go into this again? ^^

Not allowed to touch manager rights? Not really I actually never wanted to be a manager again. I wonder who told you that, or perhaps you invented it by yourself, who knows.

death you do not want to go in this again, yet you are feeding the drama as always..