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20 Standings: 10/13/2015 01:25:51

JSA 
Level 59
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20C is over. Sephiroth is the champion!! Congrats! Here are the tournament links and the scores of the top 5:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14222
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14223
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14224

Sephiroth: 21
Master Atom: 18
Pushover: 16
ps: 16*
Grosshardlen: 16

27 total games were played in 20C this season. ps played only the 1v1 and 2v2 tournaments. If he had played the 3v3 tournament, he could have received up to 20 total points, meaning Sephiroth is still in first place. Sephiroth was relatively unknown when 20C began, but he has recently made himself known to 3v3 Europe players, and he has shown he can not only compete, but also beat good players in 20C this season. Sephiroth won the 1v1 tournament and shared the 3v3 tournament title with Master Atom and Grosshardlen! ps and Pushover took the 2v2 tournament victory. Sephiroth is guarenteed a promotion to at least 20B next season.

20B and 20A updates will be coming soon.

Edited 10/13/2015 05:43:02
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 01:39:16

JSA 
Level 59
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20B:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14083
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14084
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14081


Players that still have a chance at finishing in the top 5 of Group B:
JV: 21-7
Beren: 21-8
EZPickens: 20-8
Master of the Dead: 21-10
Flyingbender: 19-12
Oh Noes: 18-12
Bjarke: 16-12
GreenTea: 15-12
Lolowut: 11-12

32 games total need to be played for each player. This means that the #1 spot looks like it will be a 3-way race between JV, Beren, and EZPickens. The 3v3 Europe tournament ended in a 3-way tie. The Strategic 1v1 tournament is still wide open with many players having a chance. The 2v2 tournament could end a 3-way tie; I will update it as it finishes. Anyone who finishes in the top 25% of 20B will be promoted to 20A this season. There were 16 players in 20B who participated in all tournaments and were not constantly booted, so the top 4 players will automatically receive invites for 20A. This means JV, Beren, EZPickens, and Master of the Dead will all earn spots to 20A next season!

Edited 10/13/2015 02:04:17
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 01:39:24


The Hysterical Koala
Level 58
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wowzers, congratulations dude! :D
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 01:51:21

JSA 
Level 59
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20A:

Latnox has won 20A!! Congrats Latnox!

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14078
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14079
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14080

Players that could still finish in the top 5:
Latnox: 19-6 (replacement game awarded)
Mike: 16-8
Julkorn: 14-9
Frankdeslimste: 14-9
Kryzchu: 15-10
Darkpie: 14-10
timon92: 13-11
Hennns: 13-11
Ollie: 13-12
abr: 11-12
ACL Tears: 10-11

26 total games will be played in 20A. Latnox has clenched first in 20A! GG is likely to get both of the top two spots, and potentially a third. Very impressive season for GG, especially Latnox! Unlike most seasons, the winner of 20A may not be the winnner of the 1v1 this season. Frankdeslimste is currently ahead in the 1v1, and if he defeats ACL Tears in his final game, he will win the 1v1 tournament! If not, Latnox will also win the 1v1 tournament! Congrats to grona, Hennnns, and Kryzchu in their 3v3 victory! The 2v2 tournament is currently undecided. There were 15 players who participated in 20A this season. The top 50% are guarenteed an invite back. This will include 7 players. The players who are already guarenteed in the top 7: Latnox, Mike. As the season finishes, we will know who else will remain in 20A next season.

Edited 10/13/2015 05:43:25
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 04:28:26


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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Not all 20C games are over. I currently have a game vs Polakillo and Pushover.
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 04:33:42


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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I also have one game left in 20B (which I'm going to win and all the challengers above me obviously lose all their games).


So I'm still taking #1 spot regardless of what JSA says :P
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 04:54:13

JSA 
Level 59
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For all intents and purposes, 20C is already over. There is one game ongoing, and I count two ongoing replacement games made by Turtle. But the top 5 are already decided, so it might as well be over.

Lol good luck Master of the Dead. I would be very surprised if you got first, but sure, it could potentially happen :)
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 05:06:31


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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If I beat Pushover he loses a win and gains a loss. Net of -2 points putting him at 15. That could take him out of top 5??? Or do these replacement games not count because the rest of league is over?

Edit: I know I am not Top 5 by any means but I want to make sure everything happens the right way...

Edited 10/13/2015 05:07:11
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 05:07:01

Hennns
Level 58
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so, what happened to the other replacemnt games? I mean if Latnox gets them then so should I.
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 05:29:03


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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Not to mention, 20B was in the same position. Vacations not being honored resulted in Miyagi being booted from almost all his games, and I'm sure a lot of other people dropped games here and there because of it.
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 05:36:42

JSA 
Level 59
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Replacement games were for players who were booted while on vacation because I made a mistake while making the 1v1 tournaments and did not allow vacations.

I did not realize you had wanted a replacement game, but looking back at the old thread, yes, you can play a replacement game against abr. You will need to make it and link it here.

Players that could still finish in the top 5 (Updated standings):
Latnox: 19-6
Mike: 16-8
Julkorn: 14-9
Frankdeslimste: 14-9
Kryzchu: 15-10
Darkpie: 14-10
timon92: 13-11
Hennns: 13-11
Ollie: 13-12
abr: 11-12
ACL Tears: 10-11

The deal was if players make the replacement game and link it in public chat, they can get the win counted. If Miyagi was on vacation and booted a lot, and he wants to play some more games against those players he was booted against, he can link them in public chat or here and I will update it.

Edited 10/13/2015 05:45:43
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 05:42:54

JSA 
Level 59
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Turtle, it's only a net loss of one. One point for each win...

Replacement games currently:
Turtle vs Polakillo
Turtle vs Pushover
Hennns vs abr

Anyone who was booted in a game they were even or winning in because of vacations, please provide a link to that game and post it here. I will then say yes or no on adding a replacement game (yes if you were at least in even shape). You have two days to post it here; if you don't, you're window of oppurtunity closes.

Most likely, we can safely lock up Latnox and Sephiroth as 20A and 20C champions, but the top 5 may see some jostling.

Edited 10/13/2015 05:58:10
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 05:57:08


Pushover 
Level 59
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Technically I have 4 boot losses that could be made up but I got lazy so... the makeup games were never played. I also have a boot win against someone else.

I'm playing Turtle to indulge him though :)

Anyway if top 5 is significant and i have a chance to drop out of the top 5 then yeah I'd like to play my make up games if possible. But otherwise I'm cool with letting things sit.
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 05:59:14

JSA 
Level 59
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With 20C, top 5 means nothing more than an ego booster. Only top 1 really matters for 20C. For 20B, top 4 really matters since they get promoted to 20A. For 20A, top 7 matters since top 7 automatically get an invite back to 20A next season. So I wouldn't bother making the games up unless you just really like to play more games.

Edited 10/13/2015 05:59:30
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 06:08:37

Hennns
Level 58
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20 Standings: 10/13/2015 20:01:09


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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I should be in 20Z :P

Edited 10/13/2015 20:02:07
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 20:28:07


Jefferspin 
Level 61
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I was invited to 20 1v1 but not 2v2
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 21:10:47


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Thanks for running this, but scoring needs to change. Win% is not fair because many skip the team games. It should be total wins or points or something.

It looks like you did total pts on C, but not A/B

Edited 10/13/2015 21:12:00
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 21:15:59


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Yeah. And team wins should be worth more than a 1v1 win, since it takes much more effort to coordinate.

Also I would like to see more structure to how promotion and relegation occurs. I get that you want to save a few spots to subjectively promote new comers(who belong in higher groups). But the ratio doesn't seem to be right. There shouldn't be more than 1-2 subjective promotions(that too in exceptional circumstances). The rest should be on merit.

For only one player to promote from a competitive group C seems really unfair. I doubt players will keep participating in the C league if the rewards are so few. Just my two cents..
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 21:50:06

Widzisz • apex 
Level 60
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And team wins should be worth more than a 1v1 win, since it takes much more effort to coordinate.


I disagree, I often find it way more difficult to coordinate with myself then with a teammate.
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 22:15:27

JSA 
Level 59
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Scoring is based on total points. 20A and 20B were not finished yet, so I showed the actual records of players.

The issue with making team games worth more is a weaker player may be puppeted by superior teammates and have a much higher score than they deserve if team games are worth more.

Jefferspin, I remember you saying this a while back too, right after they started. I apologize again for forgetting to invite you to all :(

I agree a more solid form of promotion/relegation is needed for the future. However, I think part of the essence of 20 is allowing new players to prove themselves in 20A. Darkpie, Latnox, Ollie would have not been 20A this season if it were based solely on promotion and all performed well. I think this is something that will be worked out before the next season begins.

Edited 10/13/2015 22:18:48
20 Standings: 10/13/2015 23:52:03

Ollie 
Level 62
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I guess JSA doesn't want to say it in your face jeff...

There is nobody out there we hate that much to put in a team with you so better for everyone to not invite you
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 00:28:59


Jefferspin 
Level 61
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Krzychu was right
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 00:54:14


Darkpie 
Level 61
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Hard truths
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 02:04:56


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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Having team games count for more would make picking the right teammates more important than playing well. It's bad enough for someone like BraaK in the 20B that's just finishing who had his 2v2 partner get booted in every game (except 1 I think?).
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 03:37:06

JSA 
Level 59
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Team games will not be worth more than one point in 20. What is possible is that there may be multiple team tournaments, enough for a player to be able to earn equal points in 1v1 and team games. Perhaps next season will consist of 2 3v3 tournaments, a 2v2, and a 1v1. With only 4-5 games in 3v3, there is only around 8-10 total on 3v3. 2v2 will likely be around 8\7-9 games, meaning 15-19 total team games. 1v1 is likely to have around 16-20 players meaning 15-19 1v1 games. This is a possible option that will be talked about for Season 7 I am sure.
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 09:32:47


Darkpie 
Level 61
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Make a rule that states you can't have the same teammates in different tourneys then
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 09:37:39


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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i never understood why you can't have the same teammate though
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 09:47:25


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Why should it be possible to get as many points in teamgames as in 1vs1 games?

Am I the only one who believes that teamgames doesn't really need different skills than 1vs1 games? The only difference i see is that you will do better if you got a teammate who's better than yourself. A team is always as good as his strongest member. At least when the others don't care to be puppeted.

Actually i don't really care since i got booted from most games this season anyway, but i just wanted to say that more teamgames slow this league down even more and i don't see the reason for it.

Edited 10/14/2015 09:48:24
20 Standings: 10/14/2015 10:19:26


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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actually, teamgames require MORE skill than 1v1. That's why there are more good 1v1 players than teamplayer. Also i would like to mention, that it's easier became good at 1v1 than at teamgames.

tl'dr i care even less than you as i am not playing 20 since long time.

But the reason most of best players don't want play 20 A anymore is:

A) too long tourney
B) too many boots
C) rules were maybe good in the pasts, but i think they need to changed
D) templates voting is very bad. unless i am mistaken, 2 season ago we had Ursa Luna templates. I wasn't playing and i say it was a bad templte. Everyone disagree with me and it get voted. After few games everyone said it was a bad template...
Same this season, 2v2 0% SR ME, and i heard lot of players complain about that setting, that are pretty old, and not much fun.


I also think it's time to change 1v1 template as well. About 3v3 template, i think it has been change few times already but i reccomend to change in the new ladder 3v3 setting, they are slightly better.

One of my proposal for decrease the overall lengh is, boot time 1 days 10 h with like 5 days of banking boot times maybe. Or maybe a little more, like 7 days boot time. But in this way you would ended up with faster games.

Also, IMO, i see the point of mod where he say often is crucial get a better teammate than you, so maybe you should at least play 2v2 with yourself, and only 3v3 been with another player. In this way your skill would have been a bigger impact. 19 1v1 + 19 2v2 + 5 3v3.

About 2 3v3 i disagree, 3v3 are by far the slower games, and i don't see another template good as the actual ladder setting.

I think, it would be fair use for this season the ladder setting for every 1v1 2v2 3v3, but change 2v2 into 4 starts ofc. But maybe is better change completely 1v1 into something more fresh, there are few new Szew templates pretty interesting and very well balanced.

Edited 10/14/2015 10:20:46
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