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Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 18:57:45


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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1) Are alts actually allowed, even if you do not violate these two rules below?

From Wiki (Rules):
a) "You shall not operate more than one WarLight account in a way that gives you an advantage in a game, tournament or ladder."
b) "You may never operate or access more than one account with a coin balance or that plays coin games, and that account may never be used by another person."


This seems to state we cannot have alts at all...

From TOS (13A):
"You agree to use the Website and the Services provided through this Website only for lawful purposes and to behave in a fair manner. Unacceptable uses and behavior that is deemed unacceptable include, without limitation: (i)...(ix) opening and/or using multiple Accounts;"






2) Are we not allowed to have anyone 'babysit' an account temporarily? Even if you do not use it for an advantage or coins, there is still the issue with only operating a single account as stated in TOS 13A. Additionally...

From TOS (5B):
"Your Account is not transferable. Under no circumstances shall You allow or permit any other person or third party, including without limitation any person under the legal age to participate in a game in Your applicable Jurisdiction, and in no event any person under the age of thirteen (13) years, to use or re-use Your Account or Your Identifiers in such a way that may breach the standards or laws in any Jurisdiction where You are located and/or are a resident, or where such other person is located and/or is a resident. Any person found to have violated this section may be reported to the relevant authorities."



I would really like some clarification on these as there are a ton of alts out there. I personally have one that I am careful not to violate rules with. But, it would be good to know if alts and/or babysitting is not allowed AT ALL.

Edited 8/19/2015 18:58:31
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 20:02:32


knyte 
Level 58
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Not WL Staff, but I'm presuming that those TOS (like most TOS's) are overly broad just to give WL Staff the flexibility to do what's necessary if they can't pin you on a more specific charge.

So technically, under these, alts don't seem to be allowed. But Fizzer's stated that, in practice, he's only enforcing this rule when alts are used to game the game.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 20:16:05


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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^ Correct.


So technically:

https://www.warlight.net/LadderTeam?LadderTeamID=4773 Against the rules.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9306961 Not against the rules.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 20:25:12

MrHymen
Level 56
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The ToS needs a full rewrite. They're broken multiple times a day by many people and no one seems to care which seems to mean that Fizzer doesn't believe in the rules. (Or at least in my experience)

I was fighting for either the rules to be enforced or changed but I gave up on that.

Maybe someone should bring it up in the next AMA/QnA/Fizzer answers crap session.

Meh.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 20:32:27


TBest 
Level 60
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Well, while the rules about ALt's are stricter then "needed" it is easiest that way. For instance, if someone gets a ban/suspension on their main account they can't just make a new one, because ALT's are not allowed. (Or in practise, not allowed to use, in order to bypass suspension)
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 20:33:48


҈ TeeMee123 ҈
Level 49
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I suppose it doesn't really matter very much. Fizzer hasn't taken any action, or at least very little, on this area of the rules.

Edited 8/19/2015 20:34:01
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 20:38:10


knyte 
Level 58
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^^ TBest's point is also worth considering. Some laws/rules exist mainly as catch-alls.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 22:36:36


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Well, I agree the TOS is probably meant to cover more than it needs to. At the same time we've actually had some crack downs lately (suspensions, deleting posts, etc.) for things gone unchecked in the past.

While I applaud those efforts, I just want to make sure those who are doing things that were 'OK' in the past (against the TOS probably, but Fizzer has said are fine), do not suddenly get punished. Nobody likes a bad surprise.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/19/2015 22:54:33


knyte 
Level 58
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^ Yeah. I hope Fizzer gives us a warning before he starts cracking down on all alts. I'm willing to give up meta knyte and the others if Fizzer deems alts to be a problem. But given that other individuals play WL using the same router as me, I hope he sets up a system where that doesn't become an issue should he decide to take out all alts.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/20/2015 00:27:58


Dublin Warrior 
Level 49
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unfortunately, the set of issues:
same family / same house / same apartment / same IP address / same school / same work

are, in my personal experience as an ordinary gamer, the major impediment to stopping most cheating in most games.

either game's operators ban a lot of people who learned of the game
thru word-of-mouth, (free advertising), or alts run rampant. :(

Sadly, there are a lot of games where a better method could literally save the game.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/20/2015 00:44:50

The Glorious Koala
Level 60
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in the first AMA he said that having alts was a grey zone at the moment, and unless you would use them to get an unfair advantage (playing in ffa or joining the other team) he wouldn't prosecute you for it
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/20/2015 01:08:54

Purple Illusions 
Level 51
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He can't prosecute for violating TOS. He can ban, nothing more. A license violation deems the license null. It's not punishable by jailtime or fines.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/20/2015 03:27:04


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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@Purple, Unless Fizzer is a representative of the state, I don't think he can personally prosecute anyone.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/20/2015 04:19:42


gunnar18
Level 55
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I'm not saying im over or under 18 but when i joined, it never asked for age or told me not to play coin games if i was under 18, also it gave me free coins
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/21/2015 13:45:23


Math Wolf 
Level 63
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Example 1:
Fizzer is aware of my alt and I even asked him explicitely to remove the (free) coins from it. The coins were indeed removed and the alt was allowed to stay.

According to the ToS to the letter, this is not allowed. On the other hand, I clearly operate it both (it's announced on its profile) and I use both accounts either on the same team only 1 per tournament/ladder (unless in the same team). Since I have a membership for both and I'm not doing anything wrong with it, it's in his best interest to allow it and there is no reason why anyone would be bothered by it.


Example 2:
Someone recently played coin tournaments with 2 accounts. It is unclear whether this person was aware of it, but he was banned as soon as this was brought to Fizzer's attention. (Those who follow the forum know who I'm talking about.)

According to the ToS, this is explicitely not allowed and although technically Fizzer could get advantage from it (if both accounts actually bought the coins and they play a lot giving him the 10%), this situation is clearly abuse of the system and it's in Fizzer's best interest to at least temporarily suspend them and take away (some of) the coins.


What does this teach us:
If you use your alt wisely and fairly, Fizzer won't suspend you. Worst case scenario that I can currently imagine would be that alts would be asked to quit following a future change to the site that would require the rules to be followed even stricter. However, if you try to game the system in any way, you may be suspended. If coins are involved and you are gaming the system, you will get suspended as soon as anyone finds out and informs Fizzer.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/29/2015 16:42:28


Luna {TJC}
Level 56
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What is the point of alts anyway?
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/29/2015 17:23:01


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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What is the point of alts anyway?


Cheating
posting with it (to stay anonymious)
Getting extra coins (as mentioned above)
Spying on other clans
Playing with it (for exampe a lv 1 player beats a lv 50. Then its pretty sure an alt)
etc, etc...
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 8/29/2015 18:16:47


powerpos
Level 48
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I'm not saying im over or under 18 but when i joined, it never asked for age or told me not to play coin games if i was under 18, also it gave me free coins.


Coin games aren't gambling since they are purely skill-based.
It's basically an online arcade.

Legal Questions for WL Staff: 9/9/2015 19:11:31


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Still not sure if someone is allowed to operate two accounts on the ladder at the same time as long as they never play against each other.

Need Fizzer to chime in.
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 9/9/2015 19:21:35

The Glorious Koala
Level 60
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don't think that 2 accounts at once on the same ladder (excluding 2v2) is allowed chris, as you can't choose your opponents so there is always a chance that they will meet. I recall fizzer saying something like that during the first AMA, not completely sure
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 9/9/2015 20:14:16


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I agree, although it has been done many times and no action has been taken (even though I know people who have said they reported it). I just want to know is that because it actually is allowed, or if Fizzer does not have enough 'proof' they are the same person, or if he simply doesn't want to police these things unless coins are involved.

If we knew the reason we could

a) move on/ignore it
b) help him police it/get proof

Edited 9/9/2015 20:15:26
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 9/19/2015 13:21:39


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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by ChrisCMU
Still not sure if someone is allowed to operate two accounts on the ladder at the same time as long as they never play against each other.

Need Fizzer to chime in.

I agree. Would like confirmation of the extend we can use our alts! I do not see nothing wrong with alts, in strategy games (some cases) it is vital not to make our alias knows, so we could play a strategy. I would not suggest anyone to play in ladders with more than on account. Even the 2v2 with 2 account premission seems not right.

I think the system should work like that! Everyone is allowed to have one account - but multiple aliases. Linked to the one account (So Fizzer knows everything and so all new multi-account activities would raise suspicions straight on). But aliases would be hidden from other players - will operate just like any other account and profile, but accessible through your main account. And one Alias per ladder: obviously an option to switch alias which to play with. And only one main account available in forum (would relieve the spam issue I hope).

And if the One-Man-Teams would be allowed, then a new Icon should be made so everyone would know, that they are playing against the same person, because to me it does not equal to Team-Play, but Team vs a Person!

And since everyone is allowed to have one account only voting system would improve and reflect the true scores: either map, uservoice or some new better functions how to use it. Ofcourse there is always a way to have multiple accounts, but that does not mean it should be so easy as it is now.

I do not see, why one should have more than one account! It only distorts the community. Aliases in strategy games can resolve most of the problems. One account policy is strict and often leads to positive results as people do not want to get suspended, banned, blacklisted!

I do not want to be a downer, but One-Account-Policy results in player-loss in longer run. And I would assume Fizzer wants to make access to game really easy and simple - one click and voila you are on the game, rather than harsh policy!

Edited 9/19/2015 13:22:17
Legal Questions for WL Staff: 9/19/2015 13:57:18


♆♆♆ RedBloodyKiller ♆♆♆
Level 59
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More alt more ads more money =) easy
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