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Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 21:50:19


Eklipse
Level 57
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So, this is actually somewhat old news, but apparently the fight is still going. I wasn't aware of the case until I read this article: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/patrick-stewart-backs-bakery-after-gay-cake-court-battle-10296738.html

So what does everyone think? Should business owners be forced to promote whatever message on their products that is requested? Or does freedom of speech/freedom of religion protect people from having to endorse views they don't follow?
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 22:36:50


Genghis 
Level 54
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This is Equal Rights vs Equal Rights. No real correct stance here. I'd go with the baker, because it's just a cake that he won't bake (there's other bakeries no doubt) yet he's fined 500over it.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 23:06:53


Lawlz
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"It was not because it was a gay couple that they objected, it was not because they were celebrating some sort of marriage or an agreement between them," said Stewart. "It was the actual words on the cake they objected to. Because they found the words offensive."
nigga wat

Theyre bakers, their job is to serve the customer. If I don't like someone who wears Adidas cause I'm a nike fan, I'm not gonna say get out of my shop. I'm gonna serve the customer.

Tl;dr Do your job
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 23:24:07


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Definitely the baker. They have the right to refuse to spread sexual-mental illnesses. I don't know what Adidas or nike is, but just refuse to sell them. You'll pay for it with your own lost profit, so it's like buying something for yourself that you can rarely by other places.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 23:30:31


OxTheAutist 
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I think that this family deliberately went to a CHRISTIAN owned bakery to spread homosexuality. Weren't they expecting the Christian family to deny it, in turn gaining profit by suing them because society is so afraid of being homophobic?
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 23:38:08


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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Here are a few points

Baker:

- Freedom of Speech
- Religious Obligations
- My store, my rules

Customer:

- Gays are equal
- It's just a cake
- Your job is to serve


Imo I'd go the baker. If X wants a cake and is gay and is rejected because he/she is gay then I'd say thats crossing the line. But for example, if the baker rejects a cake with "Satan loves you" in icing, then it is freedom of speech.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 23:47:46


Lawlz
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Regardless, it's discrimination.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 23:53:45


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Rid discriminating toilets.

Also, Baker can also use it's just a cake. And I wouldn't say it's crossing the line if they go try to buy a cake from, mind you, a Christian bakery if you could tell that they were gay.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/5/2015 23:55:52


Eklipse
Level 57
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Regardless, it's discrimination.

No it's not. The bakery was not denying the couple a cake outright, they simply said "We will not make a cake with this message on it". The couple in question could of easily ordered a different cake or just went to a different bakery, but instead they decided to play the victim card.

Lawlz, I have to wonder if your tone would be the same if a bakery was sued for refusing to make a cake with homosexual slurs.

I think that this family deliberately went to a CHRISTIAN owned bakery to spread homosexuality. Weren't they expecting the Christian family to deny it, in turn gaining profit by suing them because society is so afraid of being homophobic?

I don't remember if it was in the article I posted or a different one, but the bakery owners in question were very obvious about their faith and any amount of common sense would of predicted their reaction to being told to make a gay rights cake. I refuse to believe that the gay couple suing was naive or stupid enough to be caught off guard with this. They're either abusing the current status of things to make money, or they desire to make a political statement at the cost of a family's livelihood.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:01:01


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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I go 100% with Patrick Stewart. They have the right to their beliefs. They also have the right to reject any particular text they don't agree with.

It`s no discrimination at all.

A gay baker would also have the right to refuse a customer's wish of a cake that reads "marriage is sacred, leave it as it is"

What an absurd ruling to fine the bakery.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:20:29


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 51
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myhand and ekilpse on a thread together?! *gets popcorn*

Edited 6/6/2015 00:33:33
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:26:50


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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only problem is that we are on the same side this time, even if its for very different reasons.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:33:57


Major General Smedley Butler
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so it's a warlight event of the century!
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:36:10


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Yeah, I am %100 supportive of gay rights, but in this case the baker is correct. They should not have to put whatever a customer wants on there.

What if a customer came in and wanted the cake to say "this thing tastes like shit and is a complete waste of money"? Would you expect the baker to make it? Of course they have a say in what they produce.

I do not support a business not serving someone because they are gay. But obviously that is not the case here, it is the words in particular.

Edited 6/6/2015 00:36:21
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:39:41


Eklipse
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so it's a warlight event of the century!

So it would seem. Although so far everyone appears to be on the same page save for one person. It's rare to see the Warlight community this united on an issue.

Edited 6/6/2015 00:40:13
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:48:05


George Bush
Level 52
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It's the baker's store he can choose who he serves. If he is a Christian why should he be forced to bake a cake that condones homosexual marriage? That flies in the face of religious freedom. Also, why does the gay couple HAVE to get a cake at that bakery? Go to another bakery! They're just stirring up trouble and drawing attention to themselves.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:50:43


Genghis 
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It's simply because it's such a trivial matter, yet a fine of 500.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 00:50:51


Major General Smedley Butler
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George Bush and a East German commie agreeing? I can't comprehend this
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 08:25:45

An abandoned account
Level 56
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Oh ffs, not this story again! However, I find it odd that in Northern Ireland, the Northern Irish assembly still hasn't legalised gay marriage, and doesn't look like doing so in the near future, but it's still illegal to refuse to serve someone in a bakery if they want a cake with the words "support gay marriage" on it.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 09:24:58


Lawlz
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but it's still illegal to refuse to serve someone in a bakery if they want a cake with the words "support gay marriage" on it
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 14:01:12


Eklipse
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but it's still illegal to refuse to serve someone in a bakery if they want a cake with the words "support gay marriage" on it

On the contrary, it's illegal to force somebody to indulge political views they don't believe in. You can't force an Atheist baker to put religious messages on their products. You can't force LGBT bakers to put anti-gay messages on their products. On the same note, you can't force a Christian baker to promote gay marriage.

People who create products of any kind have the right to say what they will and what they won't make.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 14:07:45


Genghis 
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Hath the potter not the clay to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 23:09:32


knyte 
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Bakers/businesses are just required to offer the same service to everyone. If I bake a wedding cake for Asians, I must also back the same cake for white people, etc.- in the US, I can't discriminate based on a protected class. However, that doesn't mean I have to make a "HEIL HITLER" cake if a Nazi asks me to, or a "Happy Gay Wedding" cake if a straight or gay or whatever couple asks me to. I have full control over the products I make, but not over whom I make them for.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 23:13:26


OxTheAutist 
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That's a solid statement there ^
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 23:46:32


TBest 
Level 60
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This.

I have full control over the products I make, but not over whom I make them for.


Edited 6/6/2015 23:48:29
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/6/2015 23:54:41


Lawlz
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On the contrary, it's illegal to force somebody to indulge political views they don't believe in.
Nobody told them to be pro-gay, they were asked to bake a damn cake. "Oh but the words! The words, they hurt so much!"
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/7/2015 00:21:21


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Tbest, it's the other way around. Righting:

I can't have full control over the products I sell (but I should), but I do have control to whom I sell it to.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/7/2015 00:26:20


Eklipse
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Nobody told them to be pro-gay, they were asked to bake a damn cake. "Oh but the words! The words, they hurt so much!"

Forcing someone to put a certain political message on their products is the same as forcing them to endorse it.
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/7/2015 01:28:46


Lawlz
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So now it's political and not religious...kek
Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to bakers: 6/7/2015 02:14:14


Eklipse
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So now it's political and not religious...kek

Umm....ok? Your response makes no sense.

Freedom of expression and freedom of religion are very much a matter of politics.
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