What the heck are you talking about Thomas?

Thank you Poseidonas.

Edited 4/11/2015 12:54:06

useless debate so here is my contribution:


Edited 4/11/2015 13:50:26

christian fanatic wanting the death penalty back...doesn't surprise me one bit. GO JESUS!LETS KILL PEOPLE!



So what you want to give criminals live sentance so that your money will be spent on a person who committed a crime, so that he can live free of work and responsibleity Untill he dies.

on the other hand....lets kill people for the love of god!

You are free to by pass the statement.

Edited 4/11/2015 15:34:05

"So what you want to give criminals live sentance so that your money will be spent on a person who committed a crime, so that he can live free of work and responsibleity Untill he dies."

In US capital punishment is more expensive then sending a person to Life without parole. So money-wise capital punishment is a no-go.

Dreamer i'm just putting you in front of your own contradictions. Religious people says that every life is sacred and only god should be the judge over one's life, and yet your argument is that we should end peoples lives to save money. What an abject idea. Greed over human life, no forgiveness, how jesus of you. Plus no justice system is infaillible, so innocent people are bound to be murdered by justice.
The argument that there is less crime in countries with capital punishment is actually valid. Dictatorship with a police state and very few freedom for the citizen have very low crime rate. On the other hand, i wouldn't like to live in such a country. The bigger question is "should we sacrifice freedom over safety (or the illusion of safety)?". If the us wants to lower their crime rate, they should ban guns and legalize drugs. (i can see you coming with the stupid argument: "yeah lets legalize crime to lower the crime rate").

In US capital punishment is more expensive then sending a person to Life without parole. So money-wise capital punishment is a no-go.

Really? I think a 45 caliber bullet cost 30 cents? I'm still unsure of this are you sure?

Dreamer i'm just putting you in front of your own contradictions. Religious people says that every life is sacred and only god should be the judge over one's life, and yet your argument is that we should end peoples lives to save money.

1. Their life is sacred but they have done harm to another sacred so they get some form of punishment.

2. Their criminals accused of murder, thivery and
rape. Im spending money so they can live for free. And they don't give a shit that I'm doing this.

What an abject idea. Greed over human life, no forgiveness, how jesus of you.

When you did something you shouldn't have done your mom or father we're disappointed in you. They love you. So they punish you. If they haven't punished you you would continue what ever you were doing that was wrong and it would just get worse. They forgave you but still punished you. They love you yet punished you.

Plus no justice system is infaillible, so innocent people are bound to be murdered by justice.

Yes that would be a problem I admit.

The argument that there is less crime in countries with capital punishment is actually valid. Dictatorship with a police state and very few freedom for the citizen have very low crime rate.

Then why are you picking a fight?

On the other hand, i wouldn't like to live in such a country. The bigger question is "should we sacrifice freedom over safety (or the illusion of safety)?". If the us wants to lower their crime rate, they should ban guns and legalize drugs. (i can see you coming with the stupid argument: "yeah lets legalize crime to lower the crime rate").

1. Making innocent people helpless won't save them. And even if you ban guns "If there is a will there is a way" so if someone has the urge to kill they will find another weapon.

2. Drugs ruin people lives.

Meth heads



Weed just lowers ambition to fix problems.

I am not taking sides here... I present the facts specific for America:

I believe those states have a death penalty BECAUSE of the crime rate.

Really? I think a 45 caliber bullet cost 30 cents? I'm still unsure of this are you sure?

Problem is not the bullet. In addition to all the moral aspects, it is simply not worth it for the society, money wise...

Capital Punishment is incredibly expensive. Jack Stoffregen, from West Texas Regional Public Defender’s Office for Capital Cases, estimates the trial cost alone for death penalty cases to be $1.2 million. This can be compared to a non-death penalty murder cases costing only about $3000 for the trial (Lubbock County Tx. court officials estimate) in addition to the average of $47.50 daily cost of housing an inmate in a Texas prison. This makes $693,500 for an inmate being kept for 40 years in prison, significantly cheaper than Capital Punishment. Also worth noting is that on average, a person sits 178 months on death row, close to 15 years. To spend so long time on death row has made defendants claim that it could make them suicidal, delusional and insane.


A few sources.....

Web sites
Ramsey, Ross. "UT/TT Poll: Texans Distrust Big Institutions on Privacy | The Texas Tribune." The Texas Tribune, 8 Nov. 2013. Web. 30 Jan. 2014. <http://www.texastribune.org/2013/11/08/uttt-poll-texans-dont-trust-institutions-privacy/>.
Ramsey, Ross. "UT/TT Poll: Texans Stand Behind Death Penalty | The Texas Tribune." The Texas Tribune, 24 May 2012. Web. 30 Jan. 2014. <http://www.texastribune.org/2012/05/24/uttt-poll-life-and-death/>.
Snell, Tracy L. "Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Capital Punishment, 2010 - Statistical Tables." Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Capital Punishment, 2010 - Statistical Tables. N.p., n.d. Web. 27 Jan. 2014. <http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2236>.
"TIME ON DEATH ROW." Death Penalty Information Center. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/, n.d. Web. 26 Jan. 2014. <http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/time-death-row>.
"Death Penalty." Amnesty International USA. Amnesty, n.d. Web. 13 Mar. 2014. <http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty>.

Periodicals
Carver, Logan. "Death Penalty Cases More Expensive than Lifetime Imprisonment, but Local CDA Says Cost Never a Consideration." Lubbock Online. Lubbok Avalanche-Journual, 13 Dec. 2009. Web. 26 Jan. 2014. <http://lubbockonline.com/stories/121309/loc_535156806.shtml>.
Lubbock County, Tx. Local Newspaper 2011 Texas Associated Press Managing Editors Best Online Newspaper
Dart, Tom, and Ed Pilkington. "States Subjecting Death Row Inmates to Longer Deaths amid Scramble for Drugs." The Guardian. Guardian News and Media, 31 Jan. 2014. Web. 31 Jan. 2014. <http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/30/death-row-inmates-longer-deaths-scramble-drugs>.

Books
Jhonson, John M., and Rudolph J. Gerber. "The Myth of Equal Justice." N.p., 2007. Web. 4 Feb. 2014. <http://ebooks.abc-clio.com/reader.aspx?isbn=9780275997816&id=C9780-335>.


List of work referenced
Dieter, Richard C. "Millions Misspent: What Politicians Dont Say About the High Costs of the Death Penalty." Death Penalty Information Center. N.p., 1994. Web. 30 Jan. 2014. <http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/599#sxn4>.
Reinhold, Robert. "Execution by Injection Stirs Fear and Sharpens Debate." The New York Times, 1982. Web. 4 Feb. 2014. <http://search.proquest.com/docview/122052723?accountid=39773>.
ProQuest document ID: 122052723 Publication year: 1982
Hanks, Gardner C. Against The Death Penalty : Christian And Secular Arguments Against Capital Punishment. Scottdale, Pa: Herald Press, 1997. eBook Collection (EBSCOhost). Web. 4 Feb. 2014.

Edited 4/11/2015 17:03:08

the trial cost alone for death penalty cases to be $1.2 million.

Then pay less the judge and advocates, simplify the law or just delete trials that would be easier. Do you realize? 1,2 million dollars this is insane!

This makes $693,500 for an inmate being kept for 40 years in prison, significantly cheaper than Capital Punishment

If you think that almost 700,000 dollars is a cheap thing for the society then... 700,000 dollars wasted for a serial killer/rapist/islamic fanatic... My solution: open Forced working camps something similar to the Russian Gulag that would be a rentable thing for the society. You know that some criminals commit a crime just to be allowed in prison, because they are fed and lodged (even free health care in US prisons!) all free of charge thanks to the government. Our society is really crazy nowadays...

Edited 4/11/2015 17:31:56

You want us to open slave-labor camps.... What the fuck is wrong with you?

Warlight

You want us to open slave-labor camps.... What the fuck is wrong with you?

Some people are insane, some people killed and raped 20 innocent people, some people committed crime against humanity, some people are evil, I do not see what forced working camps are more barbaric or ethically wrong compared to killing someone in an electric chair.
Tupac grow up we are not in a child's fantasy world.

Edited 4/11/2015 17:44:57

1. Their life is sacred but they have done harm to another sacred so they get some form of punishment.

2. Their criminals accused of murder, thivery and
rape. Im spending money so they can live for free. And they don't give a shit that I'm doing this.

And what crime exactly should be punishable by death? Just a few real life example:
Murder, rape,thievery, drug dealing, drug using, homosexuality, atheism, apostasy, unfaithfulness, "disturbance to public peace", etc

In your religious belief, how do you justify the killing of another human being?

When you did something you shouldn't have done your mom or father we're disappointed in you. They love you. So they punish you. If they haven't punished you you would continue what ever you were doing that was wrong and it would just get worse. They forgave you but still punished you. They love you yet punished you.

No-one says there shouldn't be punishment. Do you advertise parent killing there children for their mistakes? (i know the Bible set the example, but still....)

Plus no justice system is infaillible, so innocent people are bound to be murdered by justice.



Yes that would be a problem I admit.

So do you reckon that killing innnoncent people once in a while is an acceptable collateral damage? It is for the geater good yeah?

1. Making innocent people helpless won't save them. And even if you ban guns "If there is a will there is a way" so if someone has the urge to kill they will find another weapon.

2. Drugs ruin people lives.

It is common sense that states with gun control have less murder rate, and it is backed up by a lot of studies. Guns makes it A LOT easier for people to kill.

Drugs ruin people lives, no argument about that. But banning drugs is not the way to go. Alcohol and tobacco do A LOT more damage than weed. I know there is a ligitimate debate on the issue, but my position on this is:
Legalize all drugs, regulate the selling of dugs, tax the drugs, and use the money from taxes and the huge amount of money invested in the war against drugs to give help to drug abusers to let go of the addiction, and provide them facilities to uses drug in a safe and healthy way (as much as it can be). Provide psychological support, let them know society hasn't given up on them.
I believe this way you will reduce dramatically crime rate, you will relieve prison of the overweighted population, you will improve health care fore drug abusers, and greatly improve everyone's quality of life.

And what crime exactly should be punishable by death? Just a few real life example:
Murder, rape,thievery, drug dealing, drug using, homosexuality, atheism, apostasy, unfaithfulness, "disturbance to public peace", etc

Muder, rape, are on the list

thivery, dependant on what he stole tv, car, child.

Drug dealing 13 and younger don't die.

Drug Useing don't die. Just recovering Programe. Unless they killed or raped someone in the process of being high.

Homosexuality. not a crime. Pass

Atheism. Not a crime. pass

Apostasy. Not a crime. Pass

Unfaithfulness. Not a crime. Pass

Disturbance to public peace. Fine

No-one says there shouldn't be punishment. Do you advertise parent killing there children for their mistakes? (i know the Bible set the example, but still....)

That was just a metaphore for any kind of crime. Not limited to killing. As for the Bible child killig statement. I know what you are talking about

Leviticus 20:9 ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.

But after a few chapters we get to Leviticus 26:40-46

40 “‘But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors—their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, 42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. 45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.’”

They still face the punishment. But if they repent with full heart they are saved for He does not forget his Covenant.

So do you reckon that killing innnoncent people once in a while is an acceptable collateral damage? It is for the geater good yeah?

Actually doing some research helped me a lot.

Romans 13:1-4, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil."

So if the punishment for murder, rape etc be whatever the government wants, so be it.

It is common sense that states with gun control have less murder rate, and it is backed up by a lot of studies. Guns makes it A LOT easier for people to kill.

"The artisans, and the husbandmen, and warriors, all have a share of government.  But the husbandmen have no arms, and the artisans neither arms nor land land, and therefor they become all but slaves of the warrior class. That they should share in all the offices is an impossibility; for generals and guardians of the citizens, and nearly all the principal magistrates,  must be taken from the class of those who carry arms. Yet, if the two other classes have no share in the government, how can they be loyal citizens? It may be said that those who have arms must necessary be masters of both classes ,  but this is not so easily accomplished unless they are numerous; and if they are, why should the other classes share in the government at all, or have power to appoint magistrates?" (Aristotle's Polotics)

People do kill people with guns. But it is the people whom kill not the guns. Banning guns will bring crime down a bit. And this quotation also shows the importance of bearing arms.

Drugs ruin people lives, no argument about that. But banning drugs is not the way to go. Alcohol and tobacco do A LOT more damage than weed. I know there is a ligitimate debate on the issue, but my position on this is:
Legalize all drugs, regulate the selling of dugs, tax the drugs, and use the money from taxes and the huge amount of money invested in the war against drugs to give help to drug abusers to let go of the addiction, and provide them facilities to uses drug in a safe and healthy way (as much as it can be). Provide psychological support, let them know society hasn't given up on them.
I believe this way you will reduce dramatically crime rate, you will relieve prison of the overweighted population, you will improve health care fore drug abusers, and greatly improve everyone's quality of life.

Interesting idea. But would that cost more or less? And the reason I keep involving prices to stuff is not because I'm greedy. But because people are just milking the money and learn nothing from what was given. So it is a waste. Although I like the idea don't you think a majority of those people will just milk the program and learn nothing from it (like most people on welfare nowadays)

I lost my head and two hands one foot death penalty lol I think I sub I do not remember.
I think there is a lot more than - 10 states with the death penalty,
There are advantages to capital punishment, deterrence, people knew that would do the deed of no return, although without the death penalty untreatable therapy, and if not they will work for the country,,,

Muder, rape, are on the list

thivery, dependant on what he stole tv, car, child.

Drug dealing 13 and younger don't die.

Drug Useing don't die. Just recovering Programe. Unless they killed or raped someone in the process of being high.

Homosexuality. not a crime. Pass

Atheism. Not a crime. pass

Apostasy. Not a crime. Pass

Unfaithfulness. Not a crime. Pass

Disturbance to public peace. Fine

wow you want to kill people dealing drug, 14 years old and above and you want to kill thieves. I didn't realise how crazy and bloodthirsty you are

So do you reckon that killing innnoncent people once in a while is an acceptable collateral damage? It is for the geater good yeah?

You dodged the question.

So if the punishment for murder, rape etc be whatever the government wants, so be it.

What? seriously? whatever "the government" do is fine? government has all powers and we shouldn't question it? that's just crazy. If the govenment punish you by stoning you to death for adultery, so be it?


And you quote Aristotle to support bearing gun, this is just ridiculus.