Just wondering what everyone's fog preferences are. Personally, I never use fog in my games, but I do see how it can make games more interesting.

But if you use extreme fog where you can't even see what you're attacking, you're a masochist

No, Complete Fog is masochistic. You don't even know if you're winning.

That's what I meant. The one where you can't even see territories next to you.

I know im going to get chastised on here, because people on here are generally quick to be rude, but i wanted to open a dialogue.

What is the appeal of fog in games? It's not in real risk and in my opinion doesn't make the game any better. Especially the extreme fog where you cant even see where you are attacking, seriously is that fun? I agree that normal fog should be an option available, but since when did it become the norm? I tried getting into ladder games, but the fog with hidden wastelands just ruins it for me. And, I know the map is revealed when selecting territories, but that would mean I would have to write down which regions have wastelands, something I refuse to do on principle. At some point it becomes like mario kart/party with random obstacles that screw you over, which is fine for those games because thats what they are known for, but this is supposed to be a strategy game! I know you're probably going to disagree with me, but I feel that the default games shouldn't have fog. That or explain to me why it should be left as the norm

Poon On

Pro Tip: While playing 1v1 Strategic (after you have made your picks and expanded into your initial bonuses) type "G" and the history tab will pop up. Scroll the cursor all the way to the left and you will see the entire map as visible from the start.\

Pro Reason: (EDIT) Part of the fun in the game is predictions. You have to think about what your opponent is doing, and you have to guess what your opponent's position is based on those predictions. Knowing EXACTLY how strong your opponent is ruins classic strategies like pretending to complete a bonus, using a reinforcement card to bluff your opponent into thinking you're stronger than you actually are or hiding your income. Playing WarLight can kind of be like Poker sometimes, what with the Luck of the Draw at the start, all the bluffing and the expertise in how you use your hand. (EDIT 2) That last phrase was not a sexually related joke.

Edited 2/20/2015 00:11:23

The appeal of fog is the fact this game isn't 100% balanced for both parties like chess. In Chess you don't require fog because both sides have full information and it's balanced. In Risk with no fog, there are ways to pick/place in a way that you will win if you simply make optimal moves. Meaning no other set of picks will be optimal. If you have full information it's a boring game. With information being hidden it opens up the board for possibilities that are typically sub-optimal to be optimal. For example, a wasteland counter to a combo of 2 picks that you did not get.

Why would you have to write the wastelands down? You can simply click history and view the full board again. The obstacles are not random, both players view the obstacles and think of strategies on working around them. In Mario Kart you have no idea what kind of power-ups you or your opponent will get, so I don't see how that fits as a comparison to this game.

Normal fog and wastelands make every game different even if you were to get the exact same board as one you've played before. That's what makes this game a more complex strategy game than Risk. That's what makes this game so unique. Perhaps you should watch one of TWM's streams. I might be able to swing by Saturday and help commentate and I will help show you exactly how amazing normal fog/wastelands is over a full information board.

Pro Tip: While playing 1v1 Strategic (after you have made your picks and expanded into your initial bonuses) type "G" and the history tab will pop up. Scroll the cursor all the way to the left and you will see the entire map as visible from the start.\

Just hit the 'home' key instead. Takes you directly to territory selection (or the first turn in auto distro)

As for fog, it significantly adds to the strategy of the game. Playing without fog is far easier and requires significantly less planning and strategizing (minimal risk assessment involved).

Edited 2/20/2015 00:45:30

Complete fog... add a bunch of spy cards and it is largely fine
or have allies, and you can generally work out where everyone is on PM

Once...I played a 5 vs 5 on complete fog...without any sort of reconnaissance cards. All I knew I had to do was just to fortify Ukraine and make random powerful attacks from there.

Normal fog is my favorite, by far. I didn't like it at first, but once I got used to it, I found it to be a lot more fun. Less than that and you ruin the element of surprise, and more than that it's too much of a guessing game.

complete fog is actually fun when you play against an AI (as Ais always use normal fog). Anyway, warlight (zone) have an infinite number of different settings, and a majority of those are most likely bad/unfun. Complete fog is like that, with the right settings it can be fun (and arguably even competitive), but you need the right settings.

One of my favorite settings with more than normal fog is from this toruney https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TournamentID=1570
(it is heavy fog, 75% luck (adjusting luck was member-only back then). the ability to transfer/deploy armies hidden from your opponent, even when right next to their territory made very fun. The game became an advanced guessing game (watch the final games and you'll see what I mean, keep in mind that everything is hidden from the players (except their own territories). I don't have any good examples of complete fog though :p

Edited 2/20/2015 01:53:06