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Supermaps: 2/1/2015 12:57:58


[NL] Willem van Oranje
Level 57
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Warlight has already increased the idea of Risk in many ways. Not only we could conquer a small basic world on a internet game, but we could also play other different maps. These maps has been improved over the years and the maps became better and better due to decent requirements in warlight and experience of map makers. Also I'm glad that the warlight leading staff is listening to the ideas of the players.
Map making in this way has reached its limits and also it didn't.

It didn't because creativity is endless to make maps, in this way the sky is the limit.
On the other hand the number of territories is limited. The Biggest map has approximately 3000 territories. Many other maps have territories below 2000.
I had the idea to introduce supermaps with 10000+ territories or so (the sky is the limit)

Some common problems occur when making huge maps.
- In inkscape the maximum numbering of territories is approximately 3200-3400
- A normal computer can crash with making such maps
- Only 2.0 kb is allowed in warlight, which has it advantages but with huge maps it has more disadvantages.
- The map in inskape is limited with the 2400x3330 size wich causes that in superhuge maps the number in territories don't fit.

Some ideas to avoid some problems and making supermaps possible
- The idea of segmentation: split 1 supermap in more smaller maps (collection of square matrices) and combine those matrices in a game.
- The technology of computers is really improving and also the newest computers will have more memory and speed than ever, these properties of new computers could be used to run a really stable program for making such maps.
- Making exceptions if possible or change the rules for supermaps in warlight (if it is possible)

What do you think of this idea to introduce even bigger maps?
Is there need for such kind of maps?
What is possible for warlight?
Is the sky the limit? or is the actual situation the limit?
Any other ideas to introduces supermaps of more than 4000 territories?
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 14:03:04

Xedrox
Level 56
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I think it would be a really good idea , but I don't think it will happen anytime soon, if ever.
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 14:16:02

DanWL 
Level 62
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Supermaps'll take a very long time to play (more than 2 hours, I guess).
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 15:12:33


[NL] Willem van Oranje
Level 57
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I was more thinking for multi-day games :)
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 15:19:40

TBest 
Level 60
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What benefits does it give a map to have so many territories, as supposed to 3k. Isn't 3k big enough. (Keep in mind you have to click a Minimum of 3000 times to take every territory... )

Also Mildly related:
I find that there is a lack of good maps made to be played on a phone. In my opinion this is were map-making can expand the most. It is really tricky as a phone map, (or mini-map?) has several reqierments.

1. Not to big, around 100 terr. (Storage space and cpu is MUCH lowere on phones, as opposed to PC) Also makes to game not last to long.
2. Using default settings, and easy streamlined game play yet still very strategic. (Cards are annoying in latest ios for instance. Not to mention the stugle of checking history, and this statistics)
3. Territories appropriate size for the screen.
4. Preferably something else then a hexagon, hexagons gets boring quickly.

Yes, some of this is more of an app issue then a map issue. However a map can still work around it, no?

Edited 2/1/2015 15:31:54
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 15:56:48


zxctycxz [Ollie Bye] 
Level 57
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I fully support this. I, amongst others, have called for this to be implemented in the past, but it has fallen on deaf ears so far. What we need to do is persuade Fizzer that this system won't be abused, so I'd suggest maybe have a separate option for super maps, which only experienced map makers can use.

'Experienced map maker' status could be based on how they've dealt with large maps in the past, how well their maps perform in terms of average ratings, or it could rely on gaining personal approval from Fizzer.
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 17:22:14


Mudderducker 
Level 57
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Will never happen or wont happen for a long time. It shouldn't happen. This ios a strategy game not ck2, Fizzer should be concentrating on over things not this. Along with all the other problems, it just wont happen. Up to 4000 maybe.

Edited 2/1/2015 17:22:31
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 17:37:13


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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I support this. This could make games more temporally realistic, combined with this new AFK takeover option. A World War 2 game could perhaps take 6 years, 30 years war, you get the gist :).

I am exaggerating, but still, it would be a cool idea.
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 20:28:31


[NL] Willem van Oranje
Level 57
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It is just an idea, I want to know what is possible.
It seems that some players do not need such maps, on the other hand other player like the idea.
I saw indeed a thread of this subject earlier.
I think supermaps could increase the possibilities of warlight with furthermore more players which will play on warlight. Also this change could fit to the new name of warlight. :)

TBest, please make another thread with these issues. Also it will not take a long time before mobile platforms will increase their capacity and new versions of the app can solve a lot of those issues.
Supermaps: 2/1/2015 21:06:27


Red Menace
Level 55
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What do you think of this idea to introduce even bigger maps?

Great idea, but I doubt it'll be possible for a very long time

Is there need for such kind of maps?

Not needed but greatly wanted

Is the sky the limit? or is the actual situation the limit?

Sky
Supermaps: 2/2/2015 03:53:31


Poseidó̱nas
Level 57
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"Don't say the sky is the limit because there is footsteps on the moon" - Alias09
Supermaps: 2/2/2015 04:20:38


Thomas 633
Level 56
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how are you even doing this?
you are still at school dude (as am I of course)
Supermaps: 2/2/2015 06:56:29


Poseidó̱nas
Level 57
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Tassie hasn't started back yet :P
Supermaps: 2/2/2015 08:26:19


Thomas 633
Level 56
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my school loves laptops
https://www.asms.sa.edu.au/

yeah, it has AUSTRALIA in it which means its probably good at something.
Supermaps: 2/2/2015 11:36:40


Kreczmar
Level 56
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nice school, dude. how many kids are learning there?

and what about maps - the bigger, the better
Supermaps: 2/2/2015 12:55:45


Poseidó̱nas
Level 57
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half the photos on that page are of laptops..
Supermaps: 2/2/2015 23:45:11


Thomas 633
Level 56
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I got a picture of the school...

and no-one ever learns. I mean I am watching that north korean movie right now.
Supermaps: 2/3/2015 00:40:26

DavidEngineering
Level 21
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This is quite inspirational, and yet quite controversial. Warlight indeed has vastly increased the idea of Risk. I will agree with that much. Now, let us divulge into those controversial topics:

1) Right off the bat, what about playing time? A multi-day would probably last around a year. By then, most players will have lost interest. A real-time could take, potentially, 5 hours. No one has that kind of time! Personally, I stay away from any map with over 500 territories, let alone 5000!

2) It would be ignorant to set aside the memory problem. I don't think that a terra-byte sized map would be good for Warlight's storage drive. So, my proposal is that the map maker pay tokens for taking up that memory (formula in next paragraph).

Whew! That took a while.
I think maps should be allowed up to 6000 territories, because some people really are that devoted. However, the map maker should have to pay abs{[floor(territories/500)]-2}*2 tokens whenever their map has over a terra-byte of memory.

Edited 2/3/2015 00:40:47
Supermaps: 2/3/2015 01:18:03


zxctycxz [Ollie Bye] 
Level 57
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Yeah, I'd be happy to pay.
Supermaps: 2/3/2015 02:33:09


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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I don't think direct payment would be the best option, make it a one-time pay and/or a member included.
Supermaps: 2/3/2015 19:32:52


Wenyun 
Level 59
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their map has over a terra-byte of memory.

I just want to say that you are grossly overestimating the number of bytes that each map takes. IIRC, Warlight uses 1024^X for map size, so...

Terabyte = 1024^4, Where your suggestion is
Gigabyte = 1024^3
Megabyte = 1024^2, 2 Megabytes is the maximum allowed for a map.
Kilobyte = 1024^1

This might not seem like a lot, but you're off by about a factor of 1,000,000. Also, a 1 Terabyte map wouldn't really be a good use of a hard drive... (The high-end ones today get to about 8 TB.) (And don't even THINK about it fitting on an Android or iPhone.)

EDIT: Also, downloading a 1 TB map would take forever. Don't do it. Realistically, maps would probably have to limit at two-digit MB to keep download speeds decent.

Edited 2/3/2015 19:42:58
Supermaps: 2/3/2015 21:23:39


[NL] Willem van Oranje
Level 57
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I was thinking more in another range
Lets think about this
3.0 Mb map (US) has 3000 territories (roughly taken)
10.0 Mb maps have then 10 000 territories.
100.0 Mb (which is 0.1 Gb) has already 100 000 territories.
I don't think anyone would like to make or play a map more than 100 000 territories...
I was thinking in a territory range of >3300 to at most 20 000 which means at most 20Mb.
(Starting with more territories in a game could solve the issue of long time expanding.)

Even if there're 100 of those supermaps and 1000 normal maps on warlight. The capacity would still only 5 Gb which is 0.005 Tb Space wouldn't be any problem
a 1Tb map would have 1 000 000 000 territories! which is absurd and not realistic to make or play.

Edited 2/3/2015 21:24:37
Supermaps: 2/5/2015 00:17:27

DavidEngineering
Level 21
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@Riyamitie okay, then we should make the mapmaker follow that formula whenever the map is over a megabyte, which renders it a "Supermap." The new maximum should then be 10 megabytes.
PS sorry for my extreme derpyness :P
Supermaps: 2/19/2015 18:05:09


Genghis 
Level 54
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I think a 3,000 - 5,000 territory amount would do my long-ignored/unused Milky Way Galaxy map idea.
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