I think goal must be to make cw interesting for top clans. So maybe divisions is good :)

To FleXUS' point, divisions would make the most sense in my opinion. It could actually spark some fun mid-tiered rivalries.

Divisions with the current model would lead to more broken matchmaking. Imo, divisions on top of Elo-style (in this case, TrueSkill) matchmaking are an antipattern because the effect they achieve (matchmaking parity) is redundant while their design (shrinking player pools) conflicts with the matchmaking system itself. It's the same issue as with a promotion/relegation ladder (e.g., splitting the MTL up into divisions)- it will just increase the number of players with low match quality. CW's existing system maximizes match quality for players whose skill level is about clan-average in clans whose skill level is around the global average. Adding divisions would mean that CW match parity would be high for players whose skill level is about clan-average in clans whose skill level is about division average, strictly worse than the status quo.

Would get more mileage out of reworking the matchmaking system (+ rating system) in CW to work at the individual level to increase players' match quality. Alternatively, if we adopt divisions, we should scrap CW ratings & matchmaking.

Edited 9/12/2022 20:53:30

So who's gonna do the legwork for the community driven CW v2.0? I'm down to test it but not the guy to run it. It's a great idea but needs someone with some cycles and a penchant for detail.

Edited 9/12/2022 20:57:53

Cw ratings and matchmaking is a good thing to get rid of

I start to understand Fizzer. :)

Definitely everybody has his own vision of:
- "What is 'community'?" - top CW clans or casual players, or competitive players from smaller clans, or silent not participating majority etc.
- "What is considered the 'success for community'?" - less frustration for 'community' (see above) or higher participation figures, or interesting templates (SEAD vs all), or more rewards, competitive equality, or skill-focus instead of participation focus, etc.

I think it would be great, if someone would organize CW2.0 to prove that his ideas are right.

Edited 9/12/2022 21:16:36

IMO CW should be interesting for the top clans. Simply a fight where all teams can see where they belong in the hierarchy of RT games :)

this topic has been discussed thoroughly on the forums and the only response we can get is it works as intended. i am ofcourse in support of a chance, but anything i can say has already been said

mtl was a massive success and even added to the site... but was also a ton of work and still requires maintenance now afaik

edit: clan league however was never added

Edited 9/12/2022 22:25:56

So who's gonna do the legwork for the community driven CW v2.0? I'm down to test it but not the guy to run it. It's a great idea but needs someone with some cycles and a penchant for detail.

If 2 or more other people are willing to sporadically invest their time, I've been itching to work on a community-run InterClan Ladder. It'd be multi-day though, but I'd like to try and unify the casual & competitive scenes, with a lightweight-participation event that's got optional tryhard features for people who like to play General Manager and do metastrategy.

It won't be trivial to build. I've hashed the ideas out before with Kratt and others- a semi-seasonal league with playoffs, the flexibility a ladder offers to players who want to play without committing for months, clan vs. clan matches (instead of isolated tournaments & games), optional active management, reserves & lower teams to allow the competition to scale for large clans, template variety that lets clans specialize and set home field advantages, workarounds to the CLOT limitations to try and get casual participation, no need for clan leaders to do any organizational work unless they want to- so I have a clear design in my head. It is the kind of project that I think would warrant tens of hours of effort from people who care about the game & community.

But after my experience working on the CSL framework for months only to launch a buggy product that no one really adopted, and given that real life + priorities mean I can't consistently commit to coding some community feature for months, I'd only be able to proceed with an InterClan Ladder project if others were also willing to help make consistent progress.

The lightweight alternative I can think of is simply building a CW2 on top of Quickmatch. We can already use the query game API + just sending ~10000 requests/day (1 every 8 seconds) to see what goes on in Quickmatch games. Combining that with clan information, we can create a pseudocompetition on top of games people already play, e.g., to generate clan vs. clan ratings or to have some sort of point system for QM wins without needing time slots or any formal organization. It won't just be a scoring system for QM b/c if we come up with a sufficiently interesting point system, clans could then try and figure out how to maximize their scores & compete via QM. This I think we could get running within a few days.

But really, it comes down to who has the time and what they're interested in doing.

Imagine if you could sell these useless Idle rewards for something useful, like coins or exp.
Or at least be able to add then as a tournament reward.

Edited 9/13/2022 10:05:38