To add to what JZ said. I started with an insane alloy values, rare supercharge army camp, and 25% AP and my times were similar.

Both AP and artifacts are useful so I'm taking a balanced approach.

I have no plans to get a dig speed boost. Long term I'll pick up the two free epics each run and get a legendary every other time.

h) +20% dig speed stacks linearly and not exponentially (I don't think anyone knows whether this is correct)

I think we know enough about WZI to conclude that it is actually exponential and not linear.

From this:

Each modifier is multiplied in succession. For example, two 20% discounts would be: 1.0 - 0.8 * 0.8 = 36%

Including Digging Speed (from Modifiers) where +50% Phase 4 Faster Digging speed & +10% Hard China digging speed rewards combine to total 55% speed reduction, all the other "reducers" operate exponentially, so it makes sense that SAsc dig reward would too. Certainly, 5x +20% dig speed yielding 100% increase speed (instant completion) simply doesn't jive with the WZI meta, which is increasing benefits are linear/summative, and reductive benefits exponential, or differently worded: whichever benefits the player the least (;

So it would end up being:
- 1x SAsc benefit -20% dig time = -20% reduced dig time (80% dig speed)
- 2x SAsc benefit -20% dig time = -36% reduced dig time (64% dig speed)
- 3x SAsc benefit -20% dig time = -49% reduced dig time (51% dig speed)
- 4x SAsc benefit -20% dig time = -59% reduced dig time (41% dig speed)
- 5x SAsc benefit -20% dig time = -68% reduced dig time (33% dig speed)
- 6x SAsc benefit -20% dig time = -74% reduced dig time (26% dig speed)
- 7x SAsc benefit -20% dig time = -79% reduced dig time (21% dig speed)

So the benefits of increased digging speed diminish with each additional SAsc. However ... adding +50% digging speed or the +10% from Hard China would bring further reductions (but also exponential).

I suspect this doesn't vastly change the analysis graemes has provided, other than maybe change the 'break even' point from ~2 years to 2.1, 2.2 or 2.3 years. Not a huge difference.

@MJZ, That's fairly impressive clear times to get the 2nd SASc - have you actually done 2nd SAsc yet or still digging? Actually nvm, I see from the "Leaderboard" thread that you've done 2, working on #3. Here has done 3.

Yeah, agree that all my numbers are off by a fairly meaningful scalar between clan benefits, time warp artifact, and Hardened China reward. Taking these into account the ~6 super ascension breakeven is a more meaningful finding than the ~2 year breakeven in hindsight. Copper Creek Epic might bring it down closer to 5 than 6 super ascensions as well.

Yeah my writeup was really unclear krinid. My Excel went from 1.0x -> 1.2x -> 1.4x dig speed (equivalent to 100% -> 80% -> 64%). I did the math correctly, I just explained it horribly. I was trying to distinguish 1.0x -> 1.2x -> 1.4x from 1.0x -> 1.2x -> 1.44x.

@graemes, Ah got it, now that you say it, yes I see that your math for the speeds is accurate.

Okay, it’s official. I’ve Super Ascended for real now.

@Z
And ... ? What's your experience like so far? What artifacts did you take? What reward did you choose?

SAsc

https://ibb.co/3y8TyVx

6 artifacts!

100% +AP

20% +Digging speed

So this is your 9th SAsc? Jumpin jeepers. Ye are hereby crowned the SAsc king!

What order did you get the rewards in? What artifacts did you select each time (tbh I'm surprised to see Hospital Boost in the mix)? How long did each SAsc take you? What start did you use (play all levels, skip bunch of levels, etc)? Any lessons learned along the way? Tips, advice, horror stories?

Tell us your SAsc story. (:

Edited 3/10/2022 21:52:39

Rare Hospital Boost might be the single best Rate artifact. This makes a ton of sense to me.

No one else is carrying it over because no one else has six artifacts of space. If you’re only taking three then you take the Legendary/Insane ones (read: not Hospital Boost).

If I had to pick one Insane + one Legendary + three Rare, I would choose this exact rollout, Insane Army Cache Boost, Legendary Alloy Values, Rare SAC, Time Warp, Hospital Boost.

If I had to choose the best in each tier I would say something like:
Insane: Army Cache Boost (?)
Legendary: Alloy Values
Epic: Time Warp
Rare: Hospital Boost
Others: SAC

https://ibb.co/xJJTmGQ

I was wondering were did here go lol

@krinid

* SAsc 2 : (4:TW,TS,AV,SAC)
SAsc 3: +25% AP
Tutorial -> Europe 1066 AD -> Superpower SL -> Abandon level -> Superpower SL -> Abandon level -> Superpower SL -> Hex Earth (2) -> + 10 Skip levels , + Add Merc -> Europe Huge -> Ascend -> Sengoku -> Scandinavia -> Europe Huge -> Plateau Assault -> Hex Earth


*SAsc 4 :(5: Leg Army Cache Boost)
SAsc 5 , 6 (insane) ,7,8, 9 : (+AP , 6 , Dig)
Tutorial -> Australia -> Superpower SL -> Hardened levels (Far, Old) -> Abandon level-> + 2 SL -> Superpower SL -> Hex Earth

*Future: Legendary Inspire Mercenaries
Tutorial -> Australia -> Hardened levels -> + 5 SL -> Europe Huge -> Plateau Assault -> Medieval Battleground -> Hex Earth


* SAsc 9 : 100% AP, Insane Army Cache Boost
01 Huruey's Castle 1h
+ Joint Strike
02 Floating Rocks 1h
03 War Of The Worlds 6h
04 Ursa:Luna 4h
05 Hardened Ursa:Luna 4h
+ 10% Additional Mercenaries
06 Final Earth 11h
+ 12,5% AM
07 Drakemor's World 1h
08 Peloponnesian War 3h
09 K-PX 3h
+25 AM, 50% IACP
10 The Siege of Feldmere 9h
11 Sengoku : Rise of Oda Nobunaga 4h
12 Copper Creek Castle 11h
13 Geopolitics 5h
14 Breaking Green 4h
+57,5% AM
15 Far Land 6h
+ 57,5% AM , 30% Mercenary Discount
16 Reconquest 1065 4h
17 Fort Harbor 4h
18 Europe 1066 AD 5h
19 AD 1045 2h
20 Old Town 7h
21 Orbis Veteribus Notus 7h
22 Scandinavia and the Nordic Countries 3h
23 Asia: Population Density 2h
+ 107,5% AM , 30% MD, 45% AV
24 Africa 5h
25 Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire 1h 18m
+115% AM, +% AP
26 Australia 3h
Superpower Skip level
27 Hardened Far Land
+115% AM, 50% MD, 100% AV
28 Hardened Old Town
Increased Cache money +100%
Can skip levels 2
Superpower Skip level
29 Hex Earth (2) 40m

as SAs are not happening often, we need to make sure this thread doesn't die so just post something random every once in a while.

I super ascended about a week ago.

Chose +25% AP.
Kept a Legendary AV and Epic SAC.

Haven't been playing that long, so only had about 6.5 worth of Epics at the time, so pleasantly little wastage, but also not nearly as much of a power boost as most other people's SA artifacts.

New run is is going a little slowly and motivation is down.

Edited 3/26/2022 00:17:02

This is the problem, fizzer barely plays idle so he doesn’t understand how only two artifacts and no power regeneration is so painful. You’re not making good progress until 3+ Sascs and most people will quit before the first, and most of the rest after hitting that wall. I would think he’d want people to play his game. Not drive them away.

This is the problem, fizzer barely plays idle so he doesn’t understand how only two artifacts and no power regeneration is so painful.

I think he knows perfectly well and did it anyway. In fact, that's the (likely at least) one of the reasons he did it. In an Idle game, the way to encourage in-game purchases (powers, artifacts) is to make progress slow and painful.

In an Idle game, the way to encourage in-game purchases (powers, artifacts) is to make progress slow and painful.

True, but that would also mean that there would be in-game purchases for things that are actually permanent (and would stay permanent). While I know that there are players that spent real cash for really stupid one-time things, a decent portion of idle players won't spend money on stuff that is wasted with the next ascension/super-ascension/mega-ascension. I for example have spent some (raffle) coins on (poor) artifacts back when I was looking for some specific ones, nowadays given that I can only take over artifacts if I merge them into high-valued ones or use bought artifacts to upgrade others, I (probably) wouldn't spend money or coins on artifacts anymore. Today, buying powers is one of the few (consumable) things left that you can keep anyway. Unless the next hyper-ascension-feature resets all powers as well. So, yeah, I don't know whether super-ascension was a good idea when it comes to in-game purchase encouragement.

Super-ascension was needed to keep players playing. After players reach phase 4 and maxed out all advancements, there's nothing more to do. Eventually they get bored and either abandon the game or log in once in a while only to dig.

I don't think it's really slow and painful. Between my first and second super-ascension, it was 10 weeks, without using the here strategy. Most levels were completed using roughly a day or less, with the exception of Feldmere, Japan and Breaking Green which took more than 2 days. That's a much faster speed than I first played Idle a year ago.

Other than bringing over the super-ascension rewards and the artifacts, you also keep your knowledge and experience with the maps. That helps a lot.

I can get through all the Mercs in 24 hours but I can’t beat the levels in 24 hours. From roughly Feldmere through China there’s an annoying late game for the last ~100 territories of waiting for drafts.

That’s with ~90% of AP put into Additional Mercs, stalling as much as possible for max hospitals, Legendary Army Cache Boost, the whole nine yards.

I’m curious what the difference is. Insane Army Cache Boost? Replaying levels? Or are you just *cranking* drafts?