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New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 08:55:23

Kcebnroh 
Level 56
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Shout out to krinid for this new thread, we had been discussing our different play styles before Fizzer nerfed the markets. He asked me to create a guide on how I craft/smelt so everyone will have an alternative if the markets are way overpriced. Of course, the longer you play the level, my method is more profitable anyway, the hitch was the setup cost.

Before we get started, as a disclaimer, this is built on my play on 5.13. However, I think it will still be valid because I mostly smelt the items I need, rather than buying from the markets. More on this later.


First of all, my AP stats as of this time
Phase 1:
Increased Army Camp Production 140%
Increased Cache Money 65%
Joint Strike Maxed
Increased Ore Sell Values Maxed
Discounted Mine Upgrades Maxed
Mine Visibility 30 mines
Increase Smelters Speed 20%
Additional Mercenaries 35%
Statistics Level 4
Increased Idle Time 360 (8 hours total)

Phase 2:
Auto-Conquer 25%

I just finished Africa Huge a few days ago, and as on most levels, money was more of an issue than armies as I had 23 Billion in unused mercs at the end. There are a few that I ran out of armies and mercs on, but more often it is money - for dig, upgrades, mercs, etc.

The #1 AP advancement I've found for money is Increased Ore Sell Values, and the second is Mine Visibility. It might seem counter intuitive, but by getting the mines sooner, I have more money to buy army camp upgrades and mercs from selling the ore. I am still on my first playthrough, & so I know I'll have less ore to sell on a shorter level time frame, but I don't see it becoming of less value because I got most of my income from ore and item sales on Africa. Of about 2.2 trillion, almost 900 billion came from items, and 700 billion from ore. That leaves 600 billion from territories, bonuses, alloys, and caches combined.

Another advantage of Mine Visibility is that you can play with fewer Fog busters on a level. Here are some photos of where I uncovered army camps and hospitals on my way to capture a mine here on

On the way to the top mine, (read left to right) I got a free Hospital
On the way to bottom mine, (read right to left) I got a free army camp almost as good as both of my other 2 put together
https://imgur.com/a/90Nsudc

Look at this lovely hospital I found (this time with before and after)
https://imgur.com/a/zP9bTB4

And another example on the far side of 2 mines
https://imgur.com/a/L4wq0GR

I currently upgrade all my mines to level 7 up to about Neodymium, (I've heard it's better to cap at 4 and will try it out next level) and 2-5 for all the mines after that. I've found this supplies most of my crafting needs, and it also makes me a huge profit selling ores. A few mines I have to upgrade quite a bit higher than that because a recipe needs a lot of a certain ore, and in that case, I upgrade only the required mines. more on this in the next section.


This leads us to the purpose of this guide: crafting. The ore sales are nice, but the item sales are even nicer! Specifically, I'm going to tell how I smelt and craft without such a heavy dependence on the markets. The only things I usually buy from the markets are a few 10-50k in tin and MAYBE a couple k in iron, zinc, lead or nickle because they are super cheap, and only for complex recipes that require other items, and multiple kinds of bars. I only craft these aforementioned recipes because they are required for techs. Otherwise I completely ignore them, they are all either unprofitable for money, or are less profitable than single ingredient item recipes.

On 8-2-21 I was on Africa Huge and I had 7 crafters and 11 Smelters and the Rare Speedy Crafters artifact equipped. I did some calculations for Explosive Bolt, and found with 7 crafters + the Rare Speedy Crafters artifact, I required 97.88793103448276 Platinum ore to be produced per second. My mines upgraded to level 7 produced 109 per second. I'm going to guess I spent 40-60 Billion on upgrading my platinum mines. because I did not document my first mine upgrade costs before I decided to run my calculations. It took 2.5 smelters to produce bars at exact sustainable levels, and by rounding up to 3 is how I got 97.88793103448276 Platinum ore per second I have better numbers on the Iron because I tracked it after krinid asked me how much my process cost. I spent 13 Billion to upgrade my iron mines to level 18 where they produced 387 iron ore per second. 3 smelters making Platnum bars required 594.8275862068966 per second, so if I hadn't had 49 million extra iron ores give, I would have had to max the iron mines out to keep my crafting sustainable.

To have sustainable crafting, your crafting recipes need X materials per Y time frame.
When calculating, I personally prefer to reduce all time frames to seconds, so an item that takes 4 hours and 41 minutes to craft would be 16,860 seconds. Then I calculate how long the smelting time is for the required bars (sometimes items, and I have to repeat for the bars required for that item as well, but all times reduce to seconds). Say the bar takes 14 minutes and 58 seconds, that = 898 seconds.

From there it's easy to say X times # of crafters, divided by craft time, multiplied by smelt time = number of smelters needed. Then take the # of smelters required & round up to integer status, divide the total smelting ingredients by the smelt time and compare the result to how many ores are getting produced per second in your mines. If the number less, you will stall out, if it's more, you can sell part of the ores, even while continuing to smelt

I will now demonstrate how to calculate smelter/ore requirements for Tin Cans on Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. Please note, having Statistics Level 2 will make it much easier to see how much total ore you are getting per second.
I currently have 4 crafters.
Each tin can takes 68 tin bars. [x4=272]
With the Speedy Crafters artifact, craft time is 6 minutes 15 seconds (375 seconds)
272 bars/375 seconds = 0.72533333 bars required per second
Smelters (with my 20% AP) take 9 seconds to produce a tin bar [0.72533333x9=6.528]
6.528 = 7 smelters needed (unless you want to micromanage it and constantly switch 1 on and off tin bars)
1 smelter takes 234 tin ore to make 1 tin bar [x7 smelters/9 seconds] = 182 tin ore per second needed
I only have 68 tin ore per second, so additional mine upgrades must be bought or tin bars purchased from the market if there is not enough tin ore in your back stock for the time you desire to craft tin cans. In this case, I was smelting bars for techs, so I bought tin from the markets.

Same thing for Metal Pipes:
1 metal pipe requires 84 iron bars, 14 silicone bars and 13 copper wires.
With the Speedy Crafters artifact, craft time is 9 minutes 46 seconds (586 seconds)
Let's start with Copper wire because this is where things get fun. 13 copper wire/586=0.0221843003412969. Times 49 seconds = 1.087030716723549 which now means you need 5th crafter, or cuts you down to 3 crafters
1 Copper Wire takes 11 copper bars/49 seconds = 0.2244897959183673 x 8 seconds per copper bar = 1.795918367346939 smelters needed for copper.
84 iron x 3 = 252. 336/586=0.4300341296928328 Iron bars take 11 seconds to smelt, so I need 4.73037542662116 smelters for iron.
14 silicone x 3 = 42. 42/586=0.0716723549488055 Silicone bars take 55 seconds to smelt, so I need 3.9419795221843 smelters for silicone
As you can see, I need 11 smelters, and I only have 5, so some supplies will have to be purchased from the markets. Assuming I had enough smelters, I would need 80.25 copper per second, 130.9090 iron, & 120.7272 silicone per second. Accomidating all this is much more expensive than tin bars.

I really find my sustainable crafting to be single ingredient recipes from twine onward. I will post an update when I obtain more recipes, specifically glass, bolt, struct and boiling flask. Rivet and welding rod are a bit more cost heavy, but can sometimes be managed as well. I will also include an ore cost per second and a profit per second breakdown for each of the featured bars.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 08:55:53

Kcebnroh 
Level 56
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Well I have been procrastinating on getting the figure I promised, in fact I’ve been sitting on a complete level because I’m dreading the 8 hours of calculations and typing I did last time on a personal mail with krinid, so I’m going to take some screenshots and let you guys do most of the calculations yourself.

*Disclaimer, I forgot to take note every time I upgraded my mines, so figures are estimates.

First off, here are the screenshots, linked by category.
Markets: https://imgur.com/a/po4GQWS
Mines: https://imgur.com/a/cCQWQTy
Level totals : https://imgur.com/a/SEiOtRy
Profits: https://imgur.com/a/8ZZIS1J
Item recipes: https://imgur.com/a/JkTjGkk
Bar recipes: https://imgur.com/a/gOFjR3C
Ores/bars/item prices https://imgur.com/a/Y1VGcpm

Okay, so I spent a few Billion on mine upgrades, and upgrading the gold mines past level 7 was not worth the investment. With the platinum, it paid to upgrade the iron mines because of the explosive bolts, and also, unusually, platinum and silicon alloys were my most profitable bars.

Here is my process for 1 item recipe.
https://imgur.com/a/vSVdgdR
**Same with the boiling flasks. ₩34,720,000,000 - ₩819,773,760 for the gold and tin ore = ₩33,900,226,240. ₩33,900,226,240/11,940 seconds = ₩2,839,214.927973199 profit per second.
Imgur would not let me put that line in for some reason

Ok, thanks guys, if I left anything out or explained it wrong, feel free to ask questions or ad corrections

Edited 9/3/2021 06:44:06
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 09:08:35


JK_3 
Level 61
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very cool, ty Kc!
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 09:12:04


riskboy88 
Level 62
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so now that market crafting is dead ore values is the new hype?
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 09:16:53

Kcebnroh 
Level 56
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Market crafting isn't dead, it's just bleeding out in the hospital. My markets switched over while I was creating this, and tin is still very cheap. Idk where the cost effectiveness caps out, but yes, this became a hot topic for that very reason.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 09:27:39

Phoenix
Level 21
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What are the level times you manage to hit with this strategy (roughly)? Are they comparable to a market-focused merc strategy?

Level 4 mines aren't "better" than your level 7 ones and with speedy smelters I would guess that level 4 wouldn't suffice by a long shot. I don't have speedy smelters yet and level 4 is a nice trade-off but only fuels a single, maybe two smelters (given some mine techs and smelter techs). With speedy smelters you would barely be able to run one smelter off of that mine production. If you intend to use the ores for smelting (or selling and the upgrade isn't too expensive), I'd stick with level 7 when having speedy smelters.

Every crafting recipe (so far) that uses Silver or higher is a mayor relief usually, because silver smelters (without buffs) for example supply three or four glass crafters and with level 4 mines you already have enough silver ore. And boosting the copper ore is very affordable.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 09:28:49


riskboy88 
Level 62
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we really need to know how market price increases
so far on ad 1045 silk ive purchased 120k tin bars after the update and the cost increased 0
mabe because this is a old level
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 09:37:51


JK_3 
Level 61
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yeah, a lot is going to depend on how the prices will go up
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 10:23:55

Kcebnroh 
Level 56
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My level times don't compare at all yet because I am going for all the techs. I would have to get back to you on that one after I ascend - or at least get all the tech advancements. Also, I only recently learned about the market style of play, So I could have only compared it on these last 2 levels, even if I wasn't going for the techs
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 15:12:53

Sefer
Level 30
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I am still on my first playthrough, & so I know I'll have less ore to sell on a shorter level time frame, but I don't see it becoming of less value because I got most of my income from ore and item sales on Africa.

Ore selling will still be relevant in future playthroughs because many late levels give large amounts of high value ores in Resource Caches- on your first playthrough you might have time to turn those into bars for techs and extremely late recipes, but on future playthroughs they just get sold for large amounts of cash.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 18:45:40


krinid 
Level 60
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So for a TDLR of the smelt-to-win strat:
- Max out Increased Ore Sell Values
- Max out Discounted Mine Upgrades
- Max out Smelters Speed
- Max out Crafter Speed
- Consider maxing out Mine Visibility
- Upgrade all mines to L4
- Upgrade key mines to L7
- Micromanage the smelters as required

1 key missing part from this right now is how to ensure you don't shoot yourself in the foot by (for example) using all your gold ore to make gold bars to craft boiling flasks, then not have enough to make platinum to make e bolts, and then when you finally do, use all your platinum ore doing so, then all your neodymium ore to make neo bars to craft magnets, and have none left over later to craft chromium bars (needs plat ore) and lanthanum bars (needs chromium, neo, lanth ore) that you need for Techs for the Merc discounts, Item sell values or +50% cache bonus.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 18:56:12

Sefer
Level 30
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Pretty much you just have to use some of the profits from selling boiling flasks to upgrade later mines and then wean off making more boiling flasks as you're gearing up to make neodymium and wean off of explosive bolts when you're gearing up for chromium. That or invest so heavily in the relevant mines that you can run one of the higher level bars and one or two lower level at the same time. Usually I just decide if getting the tech is worth suffering through making the high level bars- sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. I love getting +50% caches but there were a couple of levels in my most recent playthrough that it just wasn't viable; it'd take to long to make the bars and I could just put those resources into finishing faster..
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/10/2021 19:14:20


awaythro
Level 59
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When you hit Afro-Eurasia and Triskelion (where I am now, first play-through), feeding your crafters with the output of your smelters becomes difficult, because the alloy costs in the item recipes increase signficantly. Glass / flasks / e-bolts are still somewhat okay, but bolts / rivets / structs end up with absurdly high smelter-to-crafter ratios (i.e. (time-per-bar * bar-per-item) / time-per-item). We'll definitely need to pump up smelter speed and/or crafter efficiency there.

(edit: assuming the recipes haven't been rebalanced; need to check)

Edited 8/10/2021 19:15:34
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/11/2021 08:40:18


krinid 
Level 60
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@Sefer
I was afraid of that ... lots of micro. That's one of the reasons I stopped smelting, it just takes too much time and effort in a game that's already fairly "active" and micro-heavy despite being called an "Idle" game. But I guess that's what we're being forced into now. I recall so many times setting up a smelting routine to prepare to build (for example) 50 bars of platinum AND NO MORE b/c I needed the rest of the ore for chromium bars, but I forgot to come back at the right time and instead having 500 platinum bars and 0 ore left, and thus have to forego that glorious +50% cache Tech. Tbh now if the lowest Techs in the tree have any of the luxury bars that can't be bought from markets, I just skip them. As you said, the time and resources required to get some of the Techs outweigh their value of just using those same resources directly to clear the level.

@away
That's definitely one of my concerns. On those later levels, the rivers/bolts/structs can require >3K of their respective ingredient bars, and not sure the smelters can keep up with that. As you listed, glass/flasks/e-bolts have lower quantities of higher value bars so easier to smelt, I think. The problem is you don't always clearly know up front whether it will be enough or not, and it's a high-cost setup for both time and money ... upgrading all the mines to (hopefully) get enough ore, setting all smelters & crafters accordingly, micro'ing them to ensure you're not running out/smelting the wrong thing/etc, then 12-24hrs later, you find out if you've achieved your goal or goofed up the math and still can't smelt/craft that last thing you need for a given Tech. And if you're wrong, that money nor time is coming back.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/16/2021 19:33:50


Z 
Level 62
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I have started Hardened Scandinavia, and I am wondering if my Crafter Speed is worth it, at least early level.

Some of the recipes are sustainable without it, and barely one is sustainable with it.

Markets are dead at the moment with 100% increase with every material bought.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 8/23/2021 23:28:47


krinid 
Level 60
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Sounds like you have the bad map version with broken markets.

Also note that adding AP into Item Sell Values helps with this.

Though you said 'early' level - how early? I'd say you don't get the true value of crafter speed until you have 3 crafters working on tin cans or something higher. And you won't be able to achieve this with QoL until you can either smelt or buy enough ingredients from markets to Set and Forget, walk away for 4+ hrs, come back, still have them crafting, sell the items, buy more ingredients to continue the process and/or switch up with a better recipe, use the profit for hospital upgrades or buying mercs.

If you can't do this, then it's either too early in the level, or you're doing something wrong.
New WarZone 5.14.0 Smelting/Crafting Guide: 9/3/2021 06:44:42

Kcebnroh 
Level 56
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Ok, my edit is done! :D
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