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Supercamp question: 6/19/2021 23:46:04


John Smith
Level 56
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For ppl who own the $9.99 USD Supercamp, how many days do you think you have saved in total from it? Obviously, not expecting you to know the exact number but if you can give a good guess that'd be nice :D!

example answer to the above question: "Out of the 100 days I've played, this supercamp has most likely saved me 3 days of time thanks to its army boost."


also maybe a rating of 1-10 with 1 being not worth and 10 being must have would be nice too


I know it also gives 400 coins and a Multilevel, but say that you didn't get those, would you still purchase it?
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 00:12:55


krinid 
Level 61
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Imho, maybe 3-5% quicker max.

Essentially the Supercamp is just another camp in your list but a bit stronger, but also a lot more expensive. Some levels it's cheap at the beginning and you get some decent upgrades quickly, others it's expensive to start so can't really upgrade it for a while, but it's always at least _another_ army camp at the beginning.

But given that many levels have 20+ army camps, overall this isn't a huge increase.

Income from army camps is likely 10-20% of your total income require to clear a level, so let's say this is 10% of your army camp income (a high estimate), it's 10% of 10% = 1%.

So if you have invested heavily in increased army camp production (IACP) AP Adv and upgrade your army camps hard each level, then maybe you can push this up to 5% but I doubt much beyond that. But perhaps folks like Parsifal or Master Jz who have invested hard in IACP could comment on this as well.

Side note ... trying to get "material worth" out of the paid items for WZI isn't reasonable. They aren't priced reasonably, they're priced to make you really want it, and essentially be a financial benefit to the game to continue development. Supercamp is probably the best of them all b/c it's persistent across all levels, so at least it's 1%-ish for all levels going forward. Compare that to for example 10x Time Warp = 1000 coins (same price as Supercamp) which is likely far less than <1% on a single level. Or a 1x Multilevel 700 + 2x Inspire Mercs 300 ... worth more than the 10x TW imho but still not worth a raw $10 (also imho) but you do get some value, and it does support the game.

So if you're going to buy something for WZI, Supercamp is the thing to buy imho, just don't expect it to radically change your game.

Edited 6/20/2021 00:24:25
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 02:57:49

Toadee
Level 56
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Krinid posts the truth. It's good, but not overpowered. It helps for some levels alot in the beginning but not extremely useful towards the end of most levels.
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 10:45:56


Parsifal
Level 63
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disagree. It's a great camp.
upgrading the camp to its full potential can be an equivalent of 4-6 normal camps.
right now I'm playing through Roads of Silk and Iron: 139K armies/sec
the SuperCamp gives 31K/sec, so its 22.3%

And it's not just a simple math of how many percent of your total armies it generated at the end of the level, it's also how much faster could you accumulate more armies, with which you conquered territories faster and finished the map quicker.
I'll put it at 10% faster gameplay overall
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 11:32:18


krinid 
Level 61
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And this is why I called out Parsifal, I suspected he'd have a different perspective on it.

@Parsifal
Can you provide some details on how you got to 31K/sec = 22.3% production & 10% overall faster gameplay? Interested in hearing more. Do you recall the upgrade costs so far? What's your next best camp, what levels are they both, etc? And related AP Adv + Artifacts to get these values. How many territories captured+remaining? I'm also on Roads of Silk & Iron right now (what a coincidence!) and my SuperCamp & next highest army camp are:

- SuperCamp, L3, 2.1B for next upgrade, 3.37K/sec production.
- Vablow, L8, 275M, 3.31K/sec.
- Total army production is 19K/sec with 210% IACP & +40% ACB.

I'm still fairly early in the level, 783 territories left.
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 13:15:19


Parsifal
Level 63
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Lol.

@Krinid

- SuperCamp maxed (L7) at 31K/sec
- next best are Vindertion and Vablow. L18 and L15 - both give me 11.5K/sec
- total army production 149K/sec with 495% boost

304 territories left.

Another question you should ask yourself. How much does one AC upgrade cost and what is the benefit.
last upgrade of Supercamp cost ~16B, if I remember correctly, and it gave a boost from 21K to 31K (1.6B for 1K armies/sec)
Upgrading Vablow to the next level will cost same 16B, and it will give a boost from 11.5K to 12.5K (so 10B for 1K armies/sec)

1K armies for 1.6B or for 10B, what would you choose?


why do I say 10% faster gameplay? Probable just a feeling. It's difficult to calculate now, before I started purchasing the mercenaries.
I'll do the calculation tomorrow, after I've finished the level
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 15:51:51


Master Jz 
Level 62
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It's best on early levels, the beginning of levels, and for newer players. It'll help you get to your first dig on each level a little faster, and will increase your max draft size.

The more you upgrade your advancements, the faster the game goes. The quicker you finish a level, the less time your camps have to work. This means that the benefits from camps diminish over time. At this point, only 1% of total armies needed come from my camps on some of my levels. 99% come from other sources. It should be pretty helpful the first time you play through the levels. After that, it's less valuable.

Edit: It's hard to pin down an exact percentage, but it could give a 5%-10% boost over the first 100 days. Over the next 100, it might only be a 2%-5% boost. Beyond that, it wouldn't surprise me if it were less than 1%.

Edit Edit: After some more thought, I think it won't drop below 2.5% long term. This is because army camps are the main source of armies in the first 10% of the level, and the supercamp (even before expensive upgrades) provides a high percentage of that.

Edited 6/24/2021 05:34:20
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 16:02:58


krinid 
Level 61
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@Parsifal
Of course higher return army/sec for same money is better, but by the time you can afford to spend 16B on that army upgrade, is there enough time on the level to justify the expense anymore? That's the problem I have with SC - it has a few good upgrades, but beyond that there are better ways to spend the scadloads of money each upgrade costs. As per MJz's point, army camps just don't provide a high enough % of total level clearage to spend that money on it compared to mercs/markets/etc. But playstyles may vary ... thus why I asked for your opinion/experience. Not sure where John Smith will fall into the spectrum.

@John Smith
MJz makes a good point though, the more the play, the less you'll get value out of the Supercamp, so if you're going to buy it, buy it now, b/c when you're weakest is when it will provide the most value to you.
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 17:02:27


Parsifal
Level 63
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I'd argue that the more you play, the better the value.
Look. you upgrade it upto level 7/8 and it just generates you free armies. The longer you play the more armies you are getting for free.

On smaller levels you can upgrade it only up to level 3 or 4. So at the end you will almost certainly be able to max the SCamp before you finish the level.

On that note I want to express my thoughts, that there is no single important feature of the game. You need army camps as much as you need drafting, as much as you need hospitals, mercenaries and mines. When it comes to investing your AP, there is still a question of priority, but the SuperCamp works independently. In its case investing 9.99 once and get a permanent boost of armies, and on the same way support the game a little is a good thing
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 17:57:10


krinid 
Level 61
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By "the longer you play" I mean WZI in general, after Ascending, not playing longer durations on a single map.

The longer you play WZI in general -> Ascend -> more AP -> finish maps quicker -> less benefit from army camps, Super or otherwise

Interesting, I've only maxed the SCamp once or twice in all the maps I've played with it, but seems like you do frequently, but again, you are IACP-centric, so aligns to your play, whereas I'm more merc-centric.
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 18:07:32


John Smith
Level 56
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These are all extremely good responses, thank you all for responding with such detailed information!

@krinid, for sure getting the Supercamp as quick as possible is the most valuable/worth decision since the earlier you get it the longer you get to use it! I wonder if it does became worse as you get stronger though, as Parsifal argues it may be better.

The Supercamp is definitely worth the $9.99 though, based on everything said so far.
Supercamp question: 6/20/2021 23:15:50


Parsifal
Level 63
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finished silk roads earlier than expected.
here are the numbers (rounded for simplicity)
Total armies: 130B
Army camp production: 30B
Mercenaries: 45B
Caches: 30B
Drafts: 25B

The mercenaries play no role here, because I purchased them all at once at the end, when armies production didn't play any role any more.

so let's take the 85B.
It's difficult to calculate exactly how many armies came from the SuperCamp alone.

It took me 4 days to complete the level. let's assume I maxed it 2 days ago. So:
31K x 48h = ~5.3B armies which are 17% of army camps production, or 6% of all the armies received. Not bad for one camp!

I'm still tending towards my 10% efficiency calculation.
without the SCamp I don't know whether I'd be still playing that level. Bigger army generation means faster progress overall

Edited 6/20/2021 23:20:52
Supercamp question: 6/22/2021 01:31:06


finding machine-washed cloth
Level 62
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in my opinion, not as math based as others, i bought it. could do without it. too expensive to upgrade.
Supercamp question: 6/22/2021 07:55:21


krinid 
Level 61
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Agree w/fmwc.
Supercamp question: 6/22/2021 09:25:35


Parsifal
Level 63
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well, math doesn't agree with you
Supercamp question: 6/23/2021 21:47:17


krinid 
Level 61
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LOL, was going to say the same to you actually, but decided to just let it go.

But since you mentioned it . . .

It took me 4 days to complete the level. let's assume I maxed it 2 days ago. So:
31K x 48h = ~5.3B armies which are 17% of army camps production, or 6% of all the armies received. Not bad for one camp!

I'm still tending towards my 10% efficiency calculation.
without the SCamp I don't know whether I'd be still playing that level. Bigger army generation means faster progress overall


6% of all armies produced = includes drafts, caches, mercs? And 17% of all armies produced were from the supercamp? Not sure about the first Q, but for the 2nd Q, assume 17% of all armies from army camps are from the supercamp, so how does 17% of something that contributes to 10-20% of clearing a level result in 10% level clearing speed?

The Math:
23% army camp contribution
19% drafts
23% caches
35% mercs

So then 17% of the 23% is from the supercamp = 3.9% of these armies are from the supercamp. So I'm confused as to how a 3.9% increase in armies leads to clearing levels 10% faster. Also keep in mind that in order to upgrade, you're spending large amounts of money and you also have to wait for the armies to accumulate. It doesn't help to just upgrade it, time has to pass for the armies to accumulate. Compared to spending that same in-game money on hospital upgrades & buying mercs which you can use right away to increase your money, find more army camps, etc.
Supercamp question: 6/24/2021 01:40:00

graemes
Level 60
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“So I’m confused as to how a 3.9% increase in armies leads to clearing levels 10% faster”

Uh… this is highly believable. It’s not his fault you’re bad at math dude. Exponential growth is notoriously difficult to ballpark in your head.
Supercamp question: 6/24/2021 02:33:23


krinid 
Level 61
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@graemes
Exponential growth? Are we talking about the same thing? To have exponential growth there has to be an exponent. Supercamp is a straight linear rate, # of armies per sec * time.

Anyhow, let's assume that clearing a level 10% quicker means the Supercamp produces an additional 10% of the total army production required to clear the level. Total production = 130B, so 10% = 13B. His math showed that Supercamp produced 5.3B = 6% of all armies produced. So around 6% quicker clearing speed. (In reality, if the output was really 5.3B of a total 130B, then it's only 4% of all armies produced).
Supercamp question: 6/24/2021 07:39:57


Parsifal
Level 63
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@Krinid

I don't understand why are you counting mercenaries as "produced armies". They aren't produced. there are just sitting there for you to purchase them. They don't have any impact on the early and middle stages of the game. So when I purchase my mercenaries it's the point where I don't rely on army camp production any more.
So the question should be how faster did the SuperCamp brought me to that point.
in my opinion that 6% accelerates the process to about 10% overall, because at every second with the AC you get more armies which means you can progress faster, which in it's turn lets you conquer other army camps faster.

But let me take your side for a moment. You are saying it's only 3.9%. fine with me: it's constant free armies in every level without any AP investment until the end of times. Can you put a price on it?
Or better, think about the AC as a permanent fourth slot artifact.
Better?

Edited 6/24/2021 08:09:46
Supercamp question: 6/24/2021 08:28:04


Parsifal
Level 63
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Now about the SC being too pricey to upgrade:
https://imgur.com/a/DfDNXEQ

Upgrading Gislic for 6.48B to get a boost of 810 armies/sec
OR
Upgrading SCamp for 7.22B to get a boost of 4020 armies/sec

what would you chose?
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