@graemes

Increased Alloy Sell Values is definitely the worst sell value advancement, in my experience. I have tons of levels where I sell 0 alloys. I think you are probably right about increased resources being the worst of its set. However, it's only 990 AP to max. I've made 10%-13% of my total money selling ore that came from caches (plus whatever I gained from selling items) on my recent levels (Netherlands/China), so my gut says it's probably well worth it for what I invested. Cache money was 25%, in comparison.

I agree that Increased AP should at very least be started before ascending the second time, so that you can gain access to Increased Item Sell Values in Phase 3.

Edited 6/21/2021 19:39:06

Increase resource cache was for a long time my main income source (AP advancement together with resource cache artifact), I didn't even need to bother about producing alloys/items cause I got them "for free" from the caches and then sold them. Unfortunately Fizzer nerfed it a while ago but it should be still worth it given the low AP needed.

@Olja
What was it before and how was it nerfed? Didn't realize this.

@graemes, Master Jz
Agree, increased cache resources is the weakest of the three, but mainly b/c additional Money Cache is good (obviously) and it's fairly cheap to max out, and increased Army Caches is also obviously good, so the worst of 3 when 2 are amazing options (and I think this applies to every single map - +Money and +Armies is good on every map, right?) isn't necessarily a bad thing. But after the nerf ... is it bad? Not sure tbh. Seems like a decent option ... but not sure tbh. Maybe Olja can expand more since he's clearly got some experience with it.

Alloy Sell Values is definitely the worst of the 3 ... Ore Values is pretty good (some levels more than others, namely the ones with the more expensive ores), and Item Sell Values is good b/c selling items _already_ constitutes a large chunk of money earned on a level (usually my highest money earner), so obviously increasing that will be good. But selling alloys ... not so much. The cheaper bars aren't worth much, even thousands of them don't amount to much, and for the more luxurious ones, if you have the Ore buff already, the ore sells for a good price without having to smelt it, so getting both the Ore & Alloy buffs seems counterproductive. They're competing for sale of the same resources (ore) just a matter of whether it's raw (ore) or smelted (alloys), so may as well stick with the one that gives good results without requiring effort to produce, and free up your smelters for other stuff (though admittedly on my 2nd playthrough, this will be less important since I no longer need all those crazy bars for the Techs). Has anyone seen a good use case for investing in Alloy Sell Values?

@Krinid

before you'd get 1 pricy alloy or item. The problem with that was that increasing your cache by lets say 20% wouldn't do anything, because you can't get 1.2 Samariums. So Fizzer changed it, now you get almost the same value but in bigger quantities of lesser alloys/items

@krinid

Yeah as Parsifal said. In my case 2 times a pricy item for each later resource cache due to the 100% advancement and the epic artifact (e.g. 2 terbium bars or 2 samarium bars each time).

Now it's mainly ores you get for the later resource caches which sell for less money than the alloys/items, but the resource cache advancement still helps to get the early tech tree completed faster (as you get large amounts of, for example, aluminium bars or welding rods - often before you even have the recipe).

It also pays off for the arena games (you can partly see the difference when you equip/unequip the artifact). It's 180% times (or 230% with the +50% tech) of the "normal" resource cache, so it provides a good source of income.

Edited 6/21/2021 21:46:50

@Master Jz: Yeah, this is where I’m at as well. I’m just shy of 1.5 ascensions and am getting to the point of running out of Phase 1/2 things to dump points into. I had Phase 3 unlocked before (driven by auto stuff) but I re-spent my AP to focus on the core game and am finding it hard to find good uses for AP within Phase 2.

I think the answer is probably Increased AP, though I hear you guys saying Increased Cache Resources is also worth at least some investment.

Increased AP ftw! Don't listen to the naysayers. (;

I have mine @ 25%. I love the level end high AP rewards. Then +15% for clan wars bonus & +30% for 50 coins bonus ... sweet sweet sweet

@Master Jz, krinid:
One thing that I have given a fair bit of thought to is that the level end statistics are pretty misleading. You’re both talking about getting x% of money from caches, y% from item sales. These numbers are not time weighted, they are indexed heavily towards the late game.

Item sales, for example, make up a huge percentage of late game income (and therefore total income) but if that income all comes during the last two hours then it’s not saving you much time - if this were halved the level would only require an incremental two extra hours. The reason I think Ore Value is so strong is that this is a consistent boost that helps you get that Iron Mine upgraded earlier, that third Army Camp claimed earlier, that critical Welding Rod recipe learned earlier, etc. Even if it’s not a lot of money in late game terms, it is a lot of time saved and that’s what really matters.

This is particularly true with army camps. Army camps contribute 50%-75% at the very beginning (assuming 25% joint strike). They quickly drop down to less than 10% once I get my crafters going and find some hospitals. By the end, camps can account for just 1% of armies needed for the level. Overall though, they contribute more than 1% to my speed.

My items account for 0% at the beginning, then have a sharp jump once I get my crafters going. Once I get the crafters going, my items will be my dominant source of income for the rest of the level (90%+ of the completion time). Money caches are usually in 2nd place.

@graemes
There are essentially 3 phases to the longer WZI maps ... the beginning, the middle, the end. If you have good AP Adv/Artifacts to help in the start, you get going quickly, but then might get stuck getting to better recipes.

The middle game is probably the most flexible, b/c there's lots of options, maybe you focus on recipes, perhaps on hospitals, perhaps on raising army camps, but it has to set you up to get to the end game.

And the end game ... if you didn't set it up right, will drag on and on and on, you either won't have enough money for mercs or used them up already, don't have enough army income to make any significant progress, and every time you do the calculations, it's going to take another 10 hours to take another territory, and you still have >400 left. Particularly on your first playthrough of levels, it's easy to get stuck in this pattern.

So while it's true that 90% of the armies required will come in the last 10% of the map, if you don't have yourself set up for success, that 10% could take >50% of the time to finish.

Concerning Draft boosts, for what it's worth, I just today gave up on using my uncommon Draft Boost artifact. Until this exact day, I used this artifact not because I believed in it (I didn't exactly) but of the four passive artifacts that take effect constantly and aren't tied to specific actions (and aren't smelting/crafting related, because those are pretty much nerfed to death) - namely the two Money income boosts, the Army Camp Boost and Mine Boost - I only owned two, the two Money artifacts. So, therefore, and because I'm still a proponent of artifact swapping (at least for the time it takes to upgrade three artifacts to epic so that the numbers are in favor of upgrading and not swapping), I used those two and kept the third slot for whatever I needed it for - upgrade discounts, cache boosts, etc. And as I am drafting way more often than upgrading assets, the Draft Boost just was my default occupant of this third slot and was just replaced for the occasions that I actually claimed caches or upgraded my mines. This time finally has ended today because I found myself an Army Camp Boost, and immediately an uncommon one. I will still swap in discounts and boosts as I need them, but I replaced my 8% draft boost with a 20% Army Camp Boost for good - that is how much I believe in draft boosting, not. One more artifact to sacrifice when the time has come, without even bothering with doing the math if this is the right decision.

Edited 6/23/2021 01:02:01

Given your account level and your achievements, I'd suspect that those information weren't legitimately acquired and Fizzer would consider publishing them spoilers. I might be wrong, but having collected enough APs to unlock all Phase 4 advancements with only defeating Ursa:Luna is highly unlikely.

Who is that directed at Phoenix? Or did something get deleted here?

@Phoenix: If this type of information is considered spoiler, then I would like to remove it and never publish similar information again. But, I do not see any reason why some information that is avaiblable to everyone could be spoiler.

You are right that my AP is low, and I have not unlocked Phase 2 yet. I completed Sengoku a few days ago.

Edit: @krinid: It seems that my previous reply got downvoted and disappeared. It is on AP cost to upgrade Phase 4 advancements, and effect of Speedy Crafters/Smelters and Fog Buster.

Edited 6/28/2021 14:30:12

Not sure how that is a spoiler? We talk about that type of stuff all the time.

Phase 4 has been unlocked, and the contents have been discussed in another thread: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/557734

With that revealed, don't think there's anything left in the game that hasn't been revealed yet. Strategies are legit topics for discussion.

All levels have been played. All artifacts have been gathered. All powers used. All phases unlocked & details made known. Players have ascended, some twice.

Maybe the only thing that remains to be done is maxing out each AP Adv & upgrading all artifacts to Insane? lol

#nearImpossibleGoals

Muli (who has unlocked Phase 4 as well) got his posts deleted because he posted upgrade costs and other info which he hadn't unlocked yet. The Fog Buster artifact looks like it may be even more terrible than I imagined. Even if it revealed 1024 territories at Insane, I still wouldn't get it.

Fog Buster is 24 territories @ Epic, so 48 Legendary, 96 Insane. Simply put - totally not worth it.

Pretty sad that the highest level doesn't even reach that of the FB power, which is already underpowered on large levels.

I really can't see anyone using that artifact.

@functor: I really don't mind you posting those numbers. In fact I would love if we officially "knew" all those stuff. But the last time someone posted similar information, the player posting them was accused of reverse-engineering the app/game to obtain those facts. In those cases I doubt that such "information [...] is avaiblable to everyone". This could even be considered hacking. And whether such actions are deemed tolerable ultimately is up to the people in charge aka Fizzer.

Edited 6/28/2021 19:13:35

@Phoenix: Thanks for explanation! I understand this rule of the forum now, and I would not post similar information again.

Folks ... let's be clear, the info for all phases 1-4 is now totally publicly known. It's posted in the forums. It's not a secret. Talk about it. This isn't looked down upon, it's not against any rule.

If you try to avoid talking about things others haven't done themselves yet, you'll likely need to stop posting in the forums altogether b/c they are new players every day who have done nothing and anything you can say will be a spoiler. Don't talk about Europe Huge, b/c some people haven't gotten there yet. Don't talk about your artifacts, b/c some people haven't found that one yet. In fact, don't talk about artifacts or digs at all, b/c someone that is playing the tutorial for the first time right now doesn't know about it (no digs on the tutorial).

Ok, I'm being facetious but come on folks ... the forums are meant to discuss this kind of thing. The only thing that was forbidden was talking about stuff that _no one_ has done yet, whereby the info had to come from some unauthorized method. Master Jz has solved that for us, he's unlocked phase 4 & posted in the forum for all our benefit -- and it hasn't been deleted, so that's the supporting evidence that it's okay.