Look, I have been to the muslim and christian quarters of Jerusalem and witnessed firsthand that you claiming to be oppressed is bullshit. You keep spouting the same nonsense apartheid shit even though Palestinians literally run in the Israeli elections and have the same rights as any other Israeli. Sending articles from biased sources isn't helping your cause. Do I have to repeat all the international laws and war crimes that Hamas is breached? There is a reason the majority of western countries classify them as a terrorist organization. It's because they are.

Jerusalem isn't part of the areas that really suffer from the apartheid, cause we carry the Israeli IDs. Yes we can't vote in the elections and yes we don't have passports but this is nothing compared to the people in the West Bank and Gaza. Just go read what happened in the apartheid in South Africa and what is happening in the West Bank. They are both suffering from the same stuff. Since you have been here, did the guide let you see the apartheid wall? I don't think so.
You can argue that Palestinians in lands of 48 aren't oppressed by the apartheid, but it isn't the same in the West Bank or Gaza.
Do I have to repeat all the international laws that Israel is breached?
Western countries supported Apartheid and Colonialism long enough that we know that their political stances aren't the most humane :)
"Biased sources" Yea I guess the Human Rights Watch and Israeli Betselem are biased . Israel has been begging the International Crimes court to stop the investigation in the West Bank. Why is that? I guess it is because Israel did no war crimes and has nothing to hide right? I hope the ICC report is finished soon so I can see what other lies and bullshit you can fabricate.

But if you want to know what happens in Jerusalem, ethnic cleansing is what is happening in Jerusalem. The ethnic cleansing of thousands of Palestinians that has been in practice since they controlled the lands. Starting from not giving build permits to Arabs in areas they want to ethnically cleanse and also kicking thousands of Palestinians from their homes to make Zionists live there. This all has happened since 1947 when they kicked half of the Palestinian population out of Palestine and killed thousands in massacres going all the way to what is happening now in Sheikh Jarrah and Silwan.

And this is my last message. I won't keep explaining why we deserve citizenships or freedom of movement or rights to own lands and houses or all the rights that we aren't having. I won't be explaining why we are humans. If you are that much in love with what Israel is doing then good for you but for me I can't keep convincing someone refusing to be convinced that I deserve to have human rights like my humans and that I won't be raided by Israeli soldiers or my house becomes for Zionists because Israel decides it is.

How is Palestinians being able to run in Israeli elections worth anything?

How is a black person living in the Batustans being able to run for the South African elections worth anything?

It's not

By the way, there is no evidence that humans committed a genocide on the neanderthals. There are a number of possible explanations for why they disappeared.

How is Palestinians being able to run in Israeli elections worth anything?

Because this would be forbidden under apartheid.

I've informed myself of Hamas. I believe terrorism is a part of its warfare, but I would like to point out that, when peace is probable, Hamas has stopped attacks and has arrested those who launch attacks. Specifically, the situation in 2008 is interesting. A ceasefire was created, and Hamas followed the rules, until Israel decided to invade West Bank for some reason. Hamas and Israel both include terrorism and segregation in their system of governing. Hamas is clearly capable of being peaceful, and so is Israel, but for some reason, neither can agree to stop fighting. It's like a super extreme version of sibling rivalry.

The four things that ended the '08 ceasefire and set off the '08-'09 Gaza war were:

- Islamic Jihad not going along with the ceasefire, because they didn't trust Israel
- Israel not opening up the Gaza blockade enough to make a difference in the local economy, because they didn't trust Hamas
- Hamas digging a(n allegedly defensive) tunnel between Gaza and Israeli territory, because they didn't trust Israel
- Israel raiding Gaza in response to the tunnel (which they believed would be used to attack Israeli officers), because they didn't trust Hamas

This isn't a sibling rivalry. It's a security dilemma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_dilemma).

Edited 5/30/2021 05:49:18

beautiful country israel ❤️
https://youtu.be/qeVvuph2WAQ
I just hope I don't get blasted by a hamas rocket when I visit

Because this would be forbidden under apartheid.

You are correct here. Also, let me just post this lel


https://apnews.com/article/afe725af96f4416a85b24c07954c9afa

I know what the security dilemma is. I probably should have noticed this to be an example of it. I suppose there is a peaceful version and a violent version of it.

Just thought I'd post this. While Hamas were sending rockets at Israel and Palestinians were getting caught up in Israel's retaliation, Hamas's leader Ismael Haneyah and his buddies were off spending over a million dollars of the Palestinians' money to party in a luxury hotel in Doha with his buddies.

https://snipboard.io/aBhuyc.jpg

Hamas is a terrorist organizaiton and doesn't care about the Palestinians, they only want the death of Israel and Jews.

Orannis, that's literally fake news: https://www.dohanews.co/saudi-emirati-figures-use-forged-document-to-slander-palestines-haniyeh-visit-to-qatar/

How about Hamas spending the Palestinians' money on the terror tunnel to attack Israel instead of spending it on the wellbeing of Palestinians? You know that Hamas is rich enough to help the Palestinians if they wanted to, but decides to spend it on rockets. Meanwhile Israel spends it own funds to take in Palestinian civilians injured in the conflict.

Tell me you have no understanding of the economy of Gaza without telling me you have no understanding of the economy of Gaza.

Gaza is entirely dependent on international aid. Even with their funding from Iran and others (which is meant to be used to fight Israel and will probably stop if they stop digging those "terror tunnels"), Hamas has nowhere near what it would take to fix Gaza's economy, especially after the collapse in 2020. Gaza doesn't even have an economy to speak of.

Prior to 2005, Gaza was tied to a service sector. Once Sharon unilaterally withdrew Israel and blockaded Gaza, that entire sector- the backbone of Gaza's economy- disappeared. They've had some glimmers of hope since then but it's essentially impossible to build a functioning economy when you are dependent on Israel for all your essentials (water, utilities), under indirect occupation (no control of airspace, sea, trade, etc. - so no economic or trade policy), and blocked by Israel and Egypt. You just can't do anything. What do you sell? To whom? Only aid from the EU and US and others keeps Gaza afloat. I mean, most of their GDP is literally international aid iirc. Even if you threw a whole Bezos at that (which US and EU aid kind of does in the long run), it wouldn't fix things.

I don't want to blame Israel for the Gaza economy, since like I said above this is a security dilemma and both sides are behaving rationally (with catastrophic human consequences). But there is no way to fix Gaza's economy without the lifting of the Israeli blockade.

Maybe Bennett and Lapid will reimagine Israeli foreign policy toward Gaza and break this cycle- if the coalition materializes before the deadline today. Rethinking how to deal with Hamas is on the board since it's one of the main reasons this coalition government even happened.

---

On a meta level, I think it's worth commenting on what happened here. You shared trivially verifiably fake news (indicating your media diet must be broken, because you didn't even question this) and when you learned that, instead of rethinking your media diet or realizing that maybe your model of things must be broken if you're this susceptible to fake news, you decided you would double down on your overall point by making a new throwaway handwavy argument, hellbent on painting this as a black and white issue where one side must just have bad intentions even against incentives (your model of the situation doesn't make sense; intentions tend to match incentives, and people just being bad for no reason even when it hurts everyone is a fairy tale cliche, not how geopolitics works- this tendency to see evil and corruption everywhere and default to it as your explanation for why things aren't working is why we keep electing idiot populists).

This isn't a debate club. You're not here to look good and defend some assigned point at all costs, throwing whatever you can at your opponent. If you are at all interested in learning anything from this- if not, why are you here- consider reading things and asking questions ("Hey, why is Gaza's economy so shit?" "How much money does Hamas actually have?" "What could Hamas do to Gaza's economy if they focused on development?" "What even is Hamas' viewpoint?" "Why do so many people support Hamas?") and looking them up (you have access to far more information in a far more convenient way than was even thinkable before ~1990) before making assertions you do not have the sources or expertise to back up.

Have a little curiosity, is all I'm saying, instead of being hellbent on proving your point on issues you barely grasp.

Edited 6/2/2021 03:35:00

Lol, Orranis, I like your off topic posts, but your opinion on this issue is severely flawed. Also, it should have been obvious that invoice was fake.

I see a lot of waffle and diverting the subject. I understand that I am no expert in the situation, but desn't that mean this is an opportunity for you to educate me? I know that I have my biases but at the end of the day I'm no more biased than noob or you.

Hamas has nowhere near what it would take to fix Gaza's economy, especially after the collapse in 2020.

Then explain to me how they managed to fund more than 4000 rockets? I am genuinely curious btw, not a rhetorical question. Hamas always seem to have enough funding for weapons to attack Israel, but when it comes to protecting the people they are supposedly trying to help, they are unfortunate and poor victims.