Yeah a couple more links for Orannis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah#From_Arab_countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Plan

Interesting, thanks for the read Knyte

To balance that out, it's also worth looking into the Second Intifada (which happened after Oslo). Neither side is unambiguously good in this conflict, but either way ordinary people get caught in the crossfire.

The Jews that ruled Israel and Judah are gone now Orannis. The Romans are still around so there doesn't even need to be a fight. Also imagine thinking being somewhere first means it belongs to you mfw

Isn't that exactly noob's point? That the Jews should not have Israel because Palestinians lived there first? Or am I missing something?

Someone claimed Israel is a "religious dictatorship" this is completely incorrect, Israel is a secular state. I would argue that the religious conflict is entirely secondary to the ethnic/cultural conflict between the Jews and the Palestinians.

Islamic terror has always been supported by Israel and Western intel. Before the creation of Israel, Palestine was a diverse country with little ethnic and religious conflict; Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived together in peace. There was no Hamas or anything like that. Both Zionism and Islamic terrorism are creations of greater geopolitical forces, neither are organic in the region.

Israel is a secular state

Israel is definitely not a secular state. It is a Jewish and a democratic state and the recent addition to Basic Law only leans into its religious preferences more. Israel accommodates religious pluralism but it also recognizes itself as the state for the Jewish people and protects/cultivates Judaism through its law. It's also definitely not a religious dictatorship, more of a convoluted democratic society that, primarily for historic and security reasons, rules over some people who have no say in its government.

That the Jews should not have Israel because Palestinians lived there first? Or am I missing something?

I'm going to throw another wrench in this discussion.




If you have any non-sub-Saharan ancestry, you likely have at least one prehistoric ancestor who lived in Israel for some time. It's around where the initial coupling of Neanderthals with modern humans began; you have 1-3% Neanderthal DNA. We all have an ancestral claim to that land.

Of course, our ancestors themselves stole it from the Neanderthals and the other hominins during the course of our great global genocide.

Edited 5/24/2021 21:29:13

Israel is a great state. Hamas, I'm assuming, are the ones in Syria. They are not great. Palestine and Israel both want the area completely. They need to just settle. It's not difficult. (As a side not, who the hell thought Homo Erectus was a good name for a species??)

Hamas are the ones running Gaza. Since 2006, they've been closely affiliated with Iran. In 2006, Hamas won the election in Palestine and formed a brief government (I think it only lasted a few months, if even that), but they were unable to secure international support and recognition because they would not disavow violence and terrorism or agree to uphold prior treaties between Israel and Palestine (made by Fatah, the other political faction in Palestine). Consequently, with American backing, Fatah turned on Hamas, losing the war in Gaza but gaining control of the West Bank. Hamas is designated by the US has a foreign terrorist organization (FTO), making it virtually impossible for the US to really work with them (for context, the Taliban are not a FTO and the US has made deals with them). So since 2006 they've become even more firmly violent and been in the pocket of Iran, whom they depend on for support. Due in large part to this fiasco, 2006 is the last time that Palestine held an election. Fatah has gone on to run the PLO and operate as the State of Palestine.

Gaza, run by Hamas and under indirect Israeli occupation (Israel controls the flow of goods in and out of Gaza, their airspace, etc.), is one of the most dystopian places to live in on earth. 3 million people trapped in a hellhole with 82% unemployment and little to no prospects. It's quite tragic.

Palestine and Israel both want the area completely.

This is not true. The two-state solution is still popular in Israel, with both of Netanyahu's major rivals (Lapid and Gantz) pushing for a two-state solution. Palestine also supports the two-state solution, although the sincerity of their support is debatable.

I am really happy I researched Palestine and Israel for my Israel vs Palestine game

no-one:

not a single soul:

noob: isis is Israeli secret intelligence agency

He's Palestinian and actively affected by these conflicts and on the worst side of them. Cut him some slack. You probably have strong opinions about Pakistan or Kashmir yourself (e.g., common Indian conspiracies about what ISI or "anti-nationals" are responsible for) because of personal stake.

He isn't on the worst side of them, he is as safe in Israel as any Jew or Christian. The people on the worst side are those living in Gaza under Hamas.

He has no right to call Israel an "apartheid", to claim that he is oppressed living in Israel, that Hamas is not a terrorist organization, that Israel is at fault for the conflict, or that ISIS is a secret Israeli intelligence agency. Because those are all quite frankly incorrect.

Edited 5/27/2021 00:03:20

Claiming land by right of conquest is legitimate.

In 1066, the usurper William the Conqueror took the throne of England by right of conquest from the House of Wessex. The descendants of William the Conqueror rule England to this day. However, nobody honestly thinks that the queen of England is illegitimate and the House of Wessex should be restored.

The same goes for the White army in the Russian civil war. The Reds may have illegally usurped the authority of the Tsar but that doesn't really matter because the Reds won.

Since 1066, our tiny human brains have somewhat evolved to the point that we assign legitimacy to the people of the nation and not the monarch. At this point, Israel has rights to almost all of Palestine by right of conquest. If the Palestinians want it back they are going to have to fight for it. Hamas understands this but nobody on this forum does.

I agree with Rouge. If the Palestinians want independence they’ll have to fight for it, and if the Israelites want to conquer Palestine they’ll have to fight too as it doesn’t look like a permanent solution for peace will exist

he is as safe in Israel as any Jew or Christian. The people on the worst side are those living in Gaza under Hamas.

Is he an Israeli Arab who self-IDs as Palestinian, or someone actually living in Palestine?

He has an Israeli ID, but is not granted citizenship.

Is it an Israeli ID or a Palestinian ID? I assumed he was living in a PNA-governed area under Israeli occupation, like Jericho.

yes lavrov, I know who he is. he's also in the chillzone. also I'm jk when I post here. Its just a sad situation. but yea israel is a cool country

Sorry for taking long to respond guyz but I am not used to those forums. I'll ignore messages that I already answered and gave sources for which are pretty obvious and if you read them and ignored them then you can go ahead and read them. If you read them and are deliberately repeating the same wrong points then there is no value in me having a conversation with you, I am saying backed info and you are just saying Bullshit.
1) @Orannis said:"Isn't that exactly noob's point? That the Jews should not have Israel because Palestinians lived there first? Or am I missing something?" No this isn't my point, my point is that. 1) we are the people indigenous to this land and being oppressed in it. We deserve to have rights of citizenship, rights of movement, rights of election, etc... And that's cause we are humans, unless you see us lower than that like Israelis do.
2) My issue isn't with Jews, Bernie Sander is a Jew, Naturi Karta are Jews, there are millions of Anti-Zionist Jews throughout the world and I love them. Our issue is with the Zionists who are oppressing us and them only. And our requests are to be treated like humans which for some reason people like you think is too much for us. We only want to have the same rights as the Zionist settlers from Germany or Morocco who are illegally living next door. Our requests are that simple and I really feel sad when people don't support those requests and when I have to explain why we should have rights of citizenship, voting and movement, we should access to clean eater and electricity, etc...

@Georg, you obviously don't know what Hamas is, what they do or what the whole issue is about and I can't repeat everything I already said. Please see the sources I sent and the messages I said.

@Rick Hahaha, very funny :p. Even funnier than the racist Anti-Indian jokes that I sent you last time :p.

@Orannis again "He isn't on the worst side of them, he is as safe in Israel as any Jew or Christian. The people on the worst side are those living in Gaza under Hamas.

He has no right to call Israel an "apartheid", to claim that he is oppressed living in Israel, that Hamas is not a terrorist organization, that Israel is at fault for the conflict, or that ISIS is a secret Israeli intelligence agency. Because those are all quite frankly incorrect."

I am definitely as safe as any Christian Palestinian, I am not more or less safe than any of my Christian friends or teachers. They also get arrested and are oppressed as much as we are. I sound like some idiot typing this, we never thought there is a "we" And "them" Between Palestinians, we don't even ask people about their religion. I am definitely not as safe or don't have enough rights as any Israeli though, and I already sent you sources and you can also look up more sources. Idk why you are insisting that Israel isn't an apartheid. I already sent you reports by human rights organizations including Israeli ones saying that Israel is an apartheid and how and why they were defined as an apartheid. I can tell you that I personally experience apartheid but idk if that's a valid argument cause I am not a reliable source, those human rights organizations are reliable sources though. And I repeat my past points, Hamas isn't a terrorist organization Israel is at fault and Israel is an apartheid and I already sent sources for all of that. If you won't respond to anything about all of what I said I need your response on only one thing, why are you insisting on your pov although I sent you sources? You weren't able to face any of my points or sources but you still insist on your position. IDF soldiers are regretting what they did and are doing and you still insist on that Israel is right.

@rogue and @Hi, we can surely demonstrate, we can fight for our rights as much as possible but we can't do it alone. That's why we keep trying to spreading the word. Apartheid in South Africa was dismantled when everyone in the world worked together to pressure the apartheid government to give the people their rights of citizenship, movement, voting, and that's exactly what we want. Unfortunately we can't do it alone but we will still try our best. Thanks for your interest :).

@Tomoton and @l4v I have "Israeli ID" and I live in Jerusalem.

@Rick "Israel is a cool country" Okay, whatever mate.

@everyone:
I again apologize for taking so long to respond.