You or anyone else can speak their minds if they wish, I would never say they shouldn't.

After spending 22 years of being a socialist in america, do think it is easy to upset me? I've heard it all before. My favorite is when someone younger than me (I hadn't even been alive for a year when the USSR ended) calls me a Soviet bastard. Always give me a good laugh.

At the end of the day, money is going to be the deciding factor in every case. Any risk to money I cannot sport, particularly when it isn't necessary. Why can't Scotland devolve further in a gradual and less fractious manner? Because that prat Alex Salmond is pushing for as violent a split as possible.

Its well known that Arun makes very clever arguments.

What are these devolution plans? If I'm not mistaken all three major parties have said they will agree on some sort of devolution, but what? What exactly is Westminster offering with a no vote? Why didn't Westminster already propose future powers that would go into effect on the 18th with a no vote?

Also, how is Alex Salmond pushing this violently? He has said he would like enter a monetary union with the UK if Scotland votes yes, right? That would good for Scotland and the UK both. Has he said anything that indicates he wants to "stick it" to the UK. No, he just wants Scotland to be an independent country with complete control over keeping the NHS, free university tuition, etc. etc.

A monetry union would be good for the UK? Losing some of our sovereignty over our currency?

Alex Salmond wants an instant split. I'm not anti-independence. I'm against the risks of a sudden split. I would be more than happy if the Yes vote goes through and the SNP negotiate an incremented split. It would be great!

How much trade does Scotland and England have right now? You don't think there would be additional costs for both sides there would be if an independent Scotland used another currency?

To be fair this is my assessment of currency options:

Monetary Union: Good, again there is so much trade and the economies are similar enough where both sides would benefit.

Euro: Nope

New Currency: Honestly would be best in the long term. For the next few years Scotland could use the Sterling informally and then convert to their own currency. Would allow for Scotland's exports to be competitive to the beat of Scotland's economy.

Regardless, Alex Salmond and Westminster would sit down for over the next year and half an figure things out. It is not like Salmond will ask for everything to be sorted out like removing trident from Scotland by the March of 2016 (believe they said 2020 will be when Scotland tries to negotiate trident leaving)? Scotland will become independent then, but it will no doubt take time to sort things out. Why would you think differently?

Arun talking out of his behind again. It will not be a "sudden split"

How many times - if you don't know any facts don't throw around your opinions and pretend they are :(

From http://www.scotland.gov.uk

You can download the full document there or view online:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0043/00439021.pdf

Tl;DR There will be two years before Scotland comes into it's powers as an independent state and during that time the Parliments of all countries involved have agreed to work together to try their best to make sure it works.

Becoming independent - the transition

Timetable for negotiations

Following a vote for independence in the referendum on
18 September 2014, there will be a period of preparation for
Scotland to become an independent country. Setting a realistic
independence date of 24 March 2016 will allow time for the
preparations necessary for the Scottish Parliament to take on
the new powers of independence to be completed.
This period between the referendum and independence will
see negotiations with the rest of the UK, represented by
the Westminster Government, and with the EU and other
international partners and organisations. Following these
preparations and negotiations, Scotland will assume our status
as an independent country before the Scottish parliamentary
elections in May 2016.
In the Edinburgh Agreement signed by the First Minister
and the Prime Minister on 15 October 2012, the Scottish
and Westminster Governments committed to work together
constructively in light of the outcome of the referendum in the
best interests of the people of Scotland and the rest of the UK12.
Following a vote for independence in 2014, agreements will be
needed between the Scottish and Westminster Governments,
in the spirit of the Edinburgh Agreement, setting the parameters
for Scotland’s transition to independence. These will set out:
■■ the precise timetable towards independence day in 2016
■■ the constitutional platform for an independent Scotland – the
laws and administrative arrangements to establish Scotland
as an independent state
■■ the process and timetable for the negotiations, and
conclusion of the agreements which will form the final
independence settlement
Negotiations settle the terms
and transition arrangements, for
approval by both Parliaments.
Elections determine who will
form the first government of
an independent Scotland.
The Referendum decides
whether Scotland should be
an independent country.
SEPTEMBER 2014 BY MARCH 2016 MAY 2016
298070_CHAP_1_FIN.indd 51 19/11/2013 14:1052
Chapter 1
PART 1 The Case for Independence
It will be in the interests of both countries for the governments
to make rapid and constructive progress on these negotiations,
in line with the commitments made in the Edinburgh Agreement.
It would assist in preparing for the negotiations if discussions
between the governments were to take place prior to the
referendum, and the Scottish Government will continue to press
for such engagement.
A Yes vote will require work to be undertaken within the
Scottish Government, drawing on external advice and expertise
from within civic society and our academic and business
communities.
The negotiating team will be led by the First Minister, and the
process will include figures from across Scottish public life and
Scotland’s other political parties. During the transition period the
Government will seek the agreement of the Scottish Parliament
to extend its sitting days to ensure full democratic scrutiny of
the process and to provide adequate time for the necessary
legislation to be passed.

Edited 2014-09-10 10:56:30

G. Arun. Go outside and play. You're distracting the grown ups.

I can understand the fear of the run.
You have to remember Ska2D2 probably true you're right ...
But you have to look at the collapse of the British majority the chance that the UK does not have many natural resources.
You have to remember that perhaps 5 million people will have to self-determination.
But 50 + million Englishmen suffer economic collapse and political anarchy.
Anyway the economic situation in Europe is not good.

I don't know where I got that from. That's a bad mistake :/Assumining the split is not violent, the risks are indeed lower, though definitely not eliminated.

Scotland pays more in UK taxes than it receives in budget from the UK treasury!

That's only when you count the money that the Scottish parliament gets to directly chose how to spend. There's more money that Scotland gets that's spent by the British government that Scotland gets. Defence, welfare, etc. Come back when you have the full figures rather than just the Scottish parliament's budget if you want to use that argument.

it still wouldn't change the fact that Scotland could choose to keep NHS

NHS Scotland is already a separate organisation from NHS England and NHS Wales, I'm not sure about Northern Ireland, could someone from Northern Ireland please fill in the details?

Edited 2014-09-10 18:16:32

http://vote.pollcode.com/54514233

It's 50-50 haha

Oh, piss it! I just wrote a big spiel about why I'm voting no. Deleted it by accident, like a plum... I'm fresh out of referendum ale. I'll come back and say something once I'm in the juice

Edited 2014-09-10 23:09:08

NHS Scotland is already a separate organisation from NHS England and NHS Wales, I'm not sure about Northern Ireland, could someone from Northern Ireland please fill in the details?

No, not true at all. What happens in Westminster effects everyone. The UK is taking a knee to america and this ridiculous transatlantic trade investment part partnership, and it won't be protecting the NHS and thus will allow privatization. I know France, Netherlands, and a few other countries have already made exceptions. The UK is not exempting the NHS though, so that directly impacts Scotlands NHS.

Great video for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23m6CukRUGM&feature=youtu.be

I'm pretty sure NHS Scotland can choose not to be privatised. I'll have to find a source for that though.

it can't.

Did you not just watch that video? Did it need to be in Greek for you to understand it?

Let me spell this out for you:

The UK, i.e. Westminster, i.e. Tories are negotiating with Murica to sign this "Transatlantic Trade Investment." The UK, i.e. Westminster, i.e. Tories have already said that the health care market across the UK will be opened up to privatization (Scotland as of today/if a no vote happens next, will be in the UK and thus Scotland will be effected).

So basically Cameron and the lot of them who want to amuricanize the UK by allowing big business to flood the health care market and make it absolute shit/really expensive.

Here is a video, if reading/using google is too difficult:

http://rt.com/uk/186772-ttip-nhs-privitization-irreversible/

So not only England, but you in Arun in Whales and you in Scotland GeneralGror (if I remember correctly) will be hurt by this TTIP. So basically Arun you are going to experience the nonsense I had back in america and GeneralGror if you guys vote no then the affect will be privatization of health care.

As an american, I can tell you first hand, you don't want this GeneralGror. You certainly have to weigh the good and the bad with your vote. Certainly consider the lose of the NHS though, american health care companies will ruin it.

The trans-Atlantic free trade deal is between the EU and the USA (with the possible inclusion of Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, Canada and Mexico). If you want out of this trade deal, then you must leave the EU, leaving the UK will do nothing if you want an independent Scotland to be part of the EU.

Please people there is something called google.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/07/trade-unions-trade-deal-threat-to-nhs

Read that or watch the video I posted above if you refuse to listen to me. Yet I will still explain if by chance you learn how to read and not shout out uninformed answers:

The UK can seek exemption for the NHS. The UK trade minister has already admitted that the UK has not sought an exemption for the NHS. IT IS THAT SIMPLE!

Other countries have already made exemptions. You really think that Italy, France, etc. are going to be cool with removing non-GMO laws or their labeling laws (like Parma Ham, Bordeaux etc.)

France has already exempted their film industry apparently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/len-mccluskey/nhs-ttip-tuc-conference_b_5791300.html

Guess the UK cares less about the NHS than France does about their film industry. I doubt that a Scotland separate from the UK wouldn't give Brussels shit about it though and exempt it.

Stop moaning Scotland. You already get so much special treatment that the rest of us don't get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NttWjoRhYOI