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State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 16:21:16

Phoenix
Level 22
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Hey, quick question: When I unlock any Auto-Advancements (except from Auto-Conquer, which automatically activates for battles and challenges and deactivates afterwards if it was off) like for example Auto-Upgrade Army Camps and keep them deactivated while playing WZI levels, will they be activated once I start a battle or a challenge? Or will they only be activated if they were already activated while playing a regular idle level?

Context: I regularly swap artifacts to min-max their effects. My artifact collection isn't large enough, yet, that I could upgrade at least three of them to Epic and I still miss some of the most important ones altogether and therefore swapping grants me more benefits, I think. Auto-Advancements can (and will) activate without the corresponding artifacts being active so if I had one unlocked while I still practice swapping I would probably have it deactivated. To this point there are other advancements that I want to upgrade before I spend APs on Auto-Upgrade AC. But if I would unlock any Auto-Advancement beside Auto-Conquer (which I have already to play battles and challenges) it would be mostly for battles or challenges but I would like them to be deactivated the rest of the time. If they only have one global state, I'd probably spend my AP on other things first, if they are always on for battles and challenges (regardless of state while regular levels), I could see myself unlock them for these purposes.

Does anyone have experiences with this or is willing to test this out for me?
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 16:32:26


Z 
Level 62
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All Auto-Advancements are active during Battles and Challenges. They remain remain in the state that you left them on the regular solo levels.

As for swapping artifacts, you will find greater advantage upgrading 3 artifacts that you use full time rather than swapping out weaker artifacts. Every upgrade doubles the effect which is tremendous compared to the minor 4 or 8% boosts that many of the commonly swapped artifacts provide. I did math proving it in some thread way back. Can't remember where. But the example I used was Bonus Money Boost artifact getting upgraded provided about twice as much money that if you spent all the money earned in the game on an upgrade with a Discount Boost (which was falsely inflated to give additional boost).

Basically, if you have fodder that you are waiting to use to upgrade your main three, swapping provides a boost. If you have enough to upgrade, upgrading will provide a bigger boost than swapping.

There are very few exceptions to artifacts that might be worth holding on to for swapping purposes (Fast Smelt/Craft or Hospital Boost come to mind.) I hold no artifacts in reserve; just full-time Bonus Money Boost, Territory Money Boost, and Army Camp Boost and do not have any problems.

Edited 4/16/2021 16:05:48
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 16:52:24


krinid 
Level 60
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@Z
How many artifacts total do you have in your inventory?
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 16:53:30


Z 
Level 62
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5 Epics, 3 Uncommon, 4 Common, 2 Poor
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 16:59:00


krinid 
Level 60
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No Rare?

I have 2 Epic, 7 Rare, 20 Uncommon, 10 Common, 5 Poor.

Trying to keep 4 Poor around in case I get a new type that needs to immediately be promoted.

On I'm the fence about which of the Uncommons to promote ... b/c it's kind of a waste having them all at Uncommon when some could be Rare (or 1 could be Epic).

It'd be different if I knew I could get back an Artifact at a later time again if I use it as fodder now ... but there's no guarantee you'll find it again. And what if it becomes useful later? This is Beta, things can change ... like the recent buff to Actives. Inspire Mercs, Quad/Trip Strike, Damage Territory, Supercharge Army/Mine just actually got useful!

Time Warp, Idle Time & others are still fairly underpowered though.
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 17:06:15


Z 
Level 62
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I just expended my Rare stock to finish my 5th Epic.

like the recent buff to Actives. Inspire Mercs, Quad/Trip Strike, Damage Territory, Supercharge Army/Mine just actually got useful!

Not really. The ones you mentioned are the only ones mildly useful, and Inspire Mercs and Supercharge Mine would be better replaced with Bonus/Territory Money Boost or Mine Boost in the long run.

As for keeping others around in case you get a good one to upgrade, once you have the ones you want to full time, there is no need to keep some around just in case.

My two cents about the Artifact swapping issue.
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 18:39:22

Phoenix
Level 22
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If I would upgrade my artifacts all the way up to max, I would have either 1 Epic and 2 Uncommon or 3 Rare (as the three highest ones). Among others that are missing) I don't have Territory Money Boost or Army Camp Boost at all, so, yeah, not really appealing at this point. If this changes in the future or I find enough artifacts to sacrifice, I will reconsider. But right now, artifacts don't make that much of a difference either way. But yet enough that if FEELS good to swap.

And in general, your advice to always upgrade is as good as some guide's advice to for example max out the "Increased Cache Money" advancement (and if you, reading this, advise others to do so, this is no attack, just an example). 1) This comes down to personal play style. 2) This comes down to your other artifacts/techs/advancements. 3) This comes down to the level you're playing.
I would have to do the math for the artifact upgrade (the highest artifact that I currently own is a single active rare one, that I don't use because it's active, all else is at most uncommon), but in my current level, money caches make up 3% of my overall money income. If the caches gave me twice as much, how would that have changed my level progress significantly? Perhaps this level has fewer/smaller money caches, perhaps my other benefits boosted other factors too much, perhaps I (somehow) play against caches becoming meaningful. Everyone should know best how to improve their personal play style. (Or when to buy in to "Increased AP". My argument: as soon as possible otherwise your ROI is really late. And I have yet to find other advancements that speed up my level progress by 25% for the same price to not invest into this advancement while doing my first pass through all the levels. But as I said, this is just my opinion and no motto everyone should apply to their game play.)
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/15/2021 19:27:20


krinid 
Level 60
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Phoenix for pres! He speaks wisdom. Agree, personal play style is the biggest factor. Some people probably actually enjoy the swap in/out. I don't mind it actually, it's actually kind of fun, even if the benefit isn't huge. I treat it as part of the 'master plan' of solving a level. Just simply leaving the same 3 artifacts in all the time is less exciting than mixing it up throughout.

Also is level dependent. Some levels have "less money" (less bonuses, smaller caches, items are unprofitable) than others, or more/less/different Tech requirements (more luxury bars, less items purchasable from Markets, high/lower quantities, etc) so need to accommodate by changing your play style, which likely means adjusting your artifacts.

And not only the level ... but what point in the level. Early level I tend towards Army Boost, TMB, BMB but late game more Mine Boost, Inspire Mercs, Supercharge Mine, Quad Strike, etc, and more swapping with Hospital Boost, Cache bonuses, etc. Swapping just isn't worth the effort in the early game, but it is in the late game.

when to buy in to "Increased AP". My argument: as soon as possible otherwise your ROI is really late.

Agree again ... if you're going to do it ... do it quickly. May as well get the benefit sooner rather than later. If you're in the game for the long haul, do it now! If you're undecided if you're going to keep playing ... then maybe it's not worth it for you. Otherwise, it is.

In the end, there's no single best way to play.
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/16/2021 12:57:00

Phoenix
Level 22
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Okay, I think I should apologize for the tone of my last post. It might have been a bit too aggressive than I intended. After all, you, Z, answered my question and I have never thanked you for that, so here you go: Thanks, Z.

I omitted a few things from my initial post to keep it short. That might have been the cause for our "discussion" here:
- I experience with every level, that the first hours are actually spent playing the game, while the next days/weeks it is mostly waiting for something to happen. That's totally fine given that this is an idle game. In this time swapping is one of the few things you can actually do. But this can only help so much with how slow the game becomes no matter what. So, if upgrading had any benefits for me, I'm now at the point that I'd consider this style of playing.
- Master Jz already disclosed that it takes at least 4.5 months on average to dig up 3 epic artifacts. Given you don't have lots of bad luck with the diggings that aren't guaranteed commons. And assuming you can keep your excavation crew busy 24/7. By the time you posted your statement about the effectiveness of artifact upgrading, I found this information interesting. Yes, I've read it. But this assumes that you already found the artifacts that you intend to use for the rest of the time. Which I haven't yet. And some players might never because of RNG.
- I have a quite analytical play style. I know all the artifacts from spreadsheets that were linked in this forum, I've memorized specific mines to see at first glance whether I missed to capture one. I use several spreadsheets myself to keep track and calculate specific information. I even started to write down the recipes. I wish I never started this, because I now know what a mess recipes really are. There is nothing you can really rely on. So, when I say, upgrading isn't an option, you can be pretty sure, that I mean it that way. Although I have to admit that I only checked my maximum option of artifact upgrades (the 1E+2U or 3R numbers) after you two had this back and forth, before than it was only a feeling that I don't have very many to sacrifice by now.
- If someone told me that the Statistics advancement is a must have, I would be angry by now because maxing Statistics is already half of the APs necessary to reach Phase 2, so this advancement is (to some extent) a waste of APs. But honestly, I wouldn't want to play without this particular advancement now that I've experienced the benefits (and if there was a Level 5 Statistics to reveal all the recipes and their ingredients I would be willing to spend another 250 APs (based on how the upgrades increase in price)). What I just can't stand is when people try to almost proselytize others. I assume you know M'Hunters Strategy Guide. In it there is never an advice to "Choose Territory X as a start territory if it is available". The guide gives you general rules of thumb. I really appreciate every guide I can find for idle. Most of the time, I'm experienced enough that there is no new information for me, but I really enjoy if a community can come up with guides to support new players. But for my taste most of the guides' authors are taking it a step too far and try to persuade you to copy their style of playing. This is doomed to fail, because no-one can 100% copy the authors. No author is able to specify each and every decision they came across and even if, no player can copy them 100% of the time. I can see (to some extent) why Fizzer doesn't want us to spoil certain things, but information is key. If every player had all the information, every single person would (theoretically) be able to come up with their individual best strategy. I know already that I will have a hard time reaching Phase 4 of the advancements. Not necessarily because of the enormous number of APs you need for this, but because Phase 3 isn't worth the APs in my view. But that is something I concluded myself based on the available information. If a guide tells me I have to play each level at least x times after I maxed out "Increased AP" to have a ROI, this is a valuable piece of advice. But if a guide tells me, that Increased AP isn't worth it, that is blatantly wrong. I will personally not upgrade my ore production with advancements because each mine tech gives me so much more benefits. But I would never pretend (or convince others) that those advancements are useless for the overall community.

Okay, enough of a rant for this time. My question is answered and I think we went way too far off-topic here. As I said in my last post, I don't want to attack someone specific. I just want to emphasize that everyone has the freedom to do whatever they want as long as it is legal. And if someone wants to make the biggest mistakes (from your point of view) who are you to want to change them. The only thing you can do is to present the information you have and hope that they realize themselves what they are about to do.
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/16/2021 13:38:07

Parsifal
Level 62
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@Phoenix

because maxing Statistics is already half of the APs necessary to reach Phase 2

what's the rush to get to the second phase? it's not better than the first one.
Most of all the important upgrades are in the 1st one. Army camps and mercenary camps.

If your goal is to unlock phases, you are going to spend a loooooong time playing the levels
State of Auto-Advancements in WZIB and Challenges?: 4/16/2021 16:11:16


Z 
Level 62
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Okay, I think I should apologize for the tone of my last post. It might have been a bit too aggressive than I intended. After all, you, Z, answered my question and I have never thanked you for that, so here you go: Thanks, Z.


No worries. I am glad to help. As for my other advice, feel free to do what you will with it. I know you didn't ask for it, so sorry if it sounds like I am telling you what to do.

I disagree with you on certain points regarding swapping and Increased AP upgrade, but everyone is entitled to do what they feel is best.

If you are interested though, I did a breakdown of Increased AP in the below thread (I didn't want to hijack yours) that may help save people from wasting their time on what (in my opinion) is not a helpful upgrade.
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/543943-public-service-announcement-increased-ap

(I actually changed my own mind on IAP as well.)

Edited 4/16/2021 16:11:38
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