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Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:08:31


Johnny Silverhand 
Level 58
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One template, and a template most people have no interest in playing. Weird and unusual templates are fine as options, but they shouldn't be the only option.

Fewer options doesn't help more people join each option when the options are complete garbage, all it does is turn people off from joining at all.
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:09:55


Splat 
Level 62
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Starting from the last time slot, CW slots change the number of templates available based on prior attendance in that slot.
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:11:06


Johnny Silverhand 
Level 58
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Which makes sense, except that participation can be down because of the lack of choices. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Few choices, especially when they are bad choices, leads to low participation, which leads to more chance for few/ bad choices in the future.
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:12:12


kynte
Level 42
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Seconding this. The templates in Clan War and indeed much of the Arenas and the fixed templates in the QM rotation poorly reflect player preferences and what players actually play on. If you were to check recent games on this site (by just checking via ID), you'd notice that a whole lot are on SE1W, SEAD, Strat MME, etc., and very few are on COMBOMB, etc.

I used to suspect that Fizzer was deliberately pushing what are popularly known as "cancer" templates (e.g., Multi-Attack MME Light Fog LD) because there was a big player base of casuals that Fizzer had far better information about than the competitive player base does. But after looking at the distribution of activity on Warzone Classic (most activity comes from a small number of accounts, mainly the competitive player base) and the template preferences in games (casuals go for SEAD, not Siege), I'm starting to suspect that this is not the case. Fizzer, if you're reading this, I suggest adopting something like the Seasonal Ladder approach for Quickmatch fixed templates, Arena templates, and Clan Wars templates, and letting the player base communicate to you what templates it likes and wants to play on. The templates you keep selecting are not ones that will attract the most players and help Clan Wars (or Arenas) get optimal participation. Even the out-of-touch competitive playerbase (that can't appreciate the beauty of SEAD) has a lot of signal to offer here.

Edited 3/17/2021 06:13:31
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:13:10


Splat 
Level 62
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No. In the QnA session Fizzer had earlier, he said the number of slots is solely based on overall daily attendance.

You can watch the replay here: https://youtu.be/p7BI6Rf7FzU
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:14:55


kynte
Level 42
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Upon looking at the numbers, I don't think Nauz's vicious cycle hypothesis holds.

https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=1&Timeslot=7 - this time slot had 23 participants
https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=1&Timeslot=3 - 24 hours ago, we had only 15

Edited 3/17/2021 06:16:57
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:17:02


Splat 
Level 62
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@l4v, This slot doesn't affect the next slot, it affects this slot tomorrow
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:18:38


Min34 
Level 62
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I'd personally love to see one slot dedicated to templates from the MTL, what you do with the other remaining templates for that timeslot I don't care too much about, but one strategic option every time would be nice. In the end, the strategic community are the players that will keep going back and that will keep playing CW in the long run.

But with the current templates, I doubt CWs is going to remain popular after its first season, there's just no reason to play when non of the templates make you want to play to begin with.

EDIT: To make sure my comment isn't just negativity. Clan wars is a great idea and has amazing potential, but I am afraid it is all wasted if the templates don't change. I just want to see CW thrive and help the Warzone community grow.

EDIT 2: id personally be fine with adding an extra slot that's guaranteed to be a strat template (say any template on the MTL), but its for members only. That way the membership gets some extra value as well.

Edited 3/17/2021 07:19:15
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:19:31


Johnny Silverhand 
Level 58
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>No. In the QnA session Fizzer had earlier, he said the number of slots is solely based on overall daily attendance.

You can watch the replay here: https://youtu.be/p7BI6Rf7FzU

You're literally not saying anything everyone doesn't already know.

I saw the whole stream. I know exactly how the system works, I'm not ignorant, I'm criticizing it and pointing out why it is flawed.

There is one template available, and it is a bad template. A template few people want to play, which discourages participation. Discouraging participation leads to there being fewer templates at this same time tomorrow, and if it's a bad one then, then participation will once again be low.

Edited 3/17/2021 06:19:42
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:20:35


kynte
Level 42
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So tomorrow's slot will probably have more templates available since this one had increased participation from yesterday. Thanks to all the people who played MME Light Fog MA LD, taking one for the benefit of the community!

Still I bet you participation would be consistently higher if the templates were:
1. Small Earth 1 Wasteland or Small Earth Auto Dist (randomly picked)
2. Strategic 1v1 or Strategic ME (randomly picked, favoring MME)
3. Strategic 2v2 or an MTL template (randomly picked, Strat 2v2 1/4 of the time)
4. <some cancer template, like MME Light Fog MA LD>

Ordered so that if participation dips low, the next slot at the same time will beef numbers up by using the two most popular templates on WZ (SE1W, SEAD), and we won't have depressed participation due to cancer templates at any point. Virtually everyone who plays MME Light Fog MA LD would have played Strat MME, but most players who play MME would not be nearly as enthusiastic about MME Light Fog MA LD.

Cancer templates shouldn't be the only option! Throw something in there that players actually like.

Edited 3/17/2021 06:21:55
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:24:44


Splat 
Level 62
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Last slot was SEAD, SE1W, MME LD com, and MA MME LF LD

Which you can check here if you want: https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=1&Timeslot=6
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:26:20


kynte
Level 42
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Yeah, just look at those beautiful numbers that SEAD and SE1W are able to put up! One of those should definitely always be in the CW rotation for each time slot. After that, you should throw in Strat MME, Strat ME, or an MTL template to attract the competitive player base. Then you should have Strat 2v2 at least once a day because team templates on CW are great and some players live for team games.

And after you have all that, you can throw in cancer templates for dessert.
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:32:01


Splat 
Level 62
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At least there wasn't Strat 2v2, like below, that had only 2 people sign up for but didn't happen. Also, in the QnA, regarding the two players at the bottom, Fizzer said that if there are players in one slot that didn't get a game in that slot, they can choose to participate in the next slot without having to wait a day.


https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=1&Timeslot=2
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:34:52


kynte
Level 42
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Strat 2v2 was popular in time slots 4 (12 players) and 5 (8), though. Maybe underwhelming numbers for CW but that's to be expected- it's got a higher barrier to entry (having another member of your clan join). Strat 2v2 has a weaker case for sure than SEAD, SE1W, Strat 1v1, Strat ME, and most MTL templates as a regular template to have in the CW rotation.

But it's nice to have even if it underperforms since it's the only non-1v1 option.
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 06:38:47


Splat 
Level 62
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Yeah, even though they're worth 2 wins, getting 2 of one clan and 2 of another that will actually play is a lot hard to get than the 1v1 templates
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 22:32:05

Rento 
Level 60
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In timeslot 2, hardly anyone knew how 2v2s work and that you need to find a clanmate. It probably still isn't common knowledge. Not the best case to study.
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/17/2021 23:11:01

Fizzer 
Level 63

Warzone Creator
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This thread is nonsense. Participation in that timeslot is actually up.

Day 1, when there were 3 template options, 15 people queued.
Day 2, when there was just this one template option, 23 people queued.
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/18/2021 00:17:10


⚙️t⚙️m⚙️t⚙️n
Level 53
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See, Nauz? I told you your title would get in the way of communicating your point. But we really do not have any empirical data yet to show that so-called "cancer templates" hamper participation in Clan Wars. Should maybe wait a few weeks and then we can visualize it.

Edited 3/18/2021 00:18:49
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/18/2021 00:49:24


Bonsai 
Level 62
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#fizzydontcare
Want to know why Participation is down?: 3/18/2021 00:56:57


krinid 
Level 61
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Forget # of participants ... you absolutely need 1 "Quick" template (SEAD, etc). Minimum. Many people just aren't interested in playing a RT game on anything longer than SE.

And not sure why # of templates is based on previous days participation, rather than live, real time participation. This means that if only 8 people played at this slot yesterday, we get 1 template at same time today even if 50 people join the queue. If >10 people join the queue, open a new template and let people swap their picks. If people keep joining, add more templates.

Previous days' participation can be used as a guide to perhaps _Start_ at some # of templates >1, but it should be a hard limiter when you actually have sufficient # of players wanting to play ... just perhaps no on the single template showing.

Just read Fizz's post ... lol @ "This thread is nonsense." So this thread had false facts? Then shame on us for chatting about irrelevant junk.

BUT ... the thought still holds, imho all CW windows need a quick template.

Edited 3/18/2021 00:58:17
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