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Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 18:17:07


krinid 
Level 60
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Interested in opinions, what are everyone's initial thoughts on hospitals?

I've started Reconquest 1065 (a nice medium sized, middle of the pack map, not too big, not too small) to get a feel for hospitals.

So far ... I'm 1d18h in and hospitals have saved 27M of 650M total armies earned, so only 4% right now, but will be interesting to see how it changes by end of level. They seem to be like army camps, where the ones you find later in the map come with higher default levels than the earlier ones, likely to the point where even with your upgrades that these later ones you find are still higher. Which means I should get more benefit by end of level.

But so far seems promising.

Anyone finish a level already with hospitals on it? Show your end stats if so.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 18:29:03


krby71
Level 44
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I don't have my stats, I recently finished Drakemor's World with a hospital. It saved me millions of armies. I think it is greatly worth it and upgrading it as quickly as possible. I just got the hospital on the next level and I will post stats when I complete that level
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 18:39:35


TBest 
Level 60
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I like it alot. Good thing to add.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 20:17:43


master of desaster 
Level 66
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It slightly annoys me that the upgradeable hospital always gets highlighted. I don't want to upgrade it so it would be nice if i could disable it
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 21:17:31

pasterma
Level 57
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there was an hospital in Drakemr's ?
dont remember but actually it would be kind if someone explains me what this hospital is "doing" and how it is helping. please.
i have been reading your past posts but didnt get it... sorry if my english is not as good as yours..
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 21:20:29


krinid 
Level 60
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Can't speak to Drakemore's as I haven't played it since Hospitals came out, but I would expect that all levels since the update will have one, just like Merc camps, Markets, Arenas, etc.

As for what they do, think this says it best:

Hospitals allow you to retain some armies every time you capture a territory. Their effects are doubled when capturing within four territories of the hospital.


For example, my current best hospital gives me these benefits:
Retain ₳2.2M armies when territory is close, and ₳1.1M when the territory is far away
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 21:43:57


krinid 
Level 60
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Here's an obersvation: not all hospitals are created equal. Someone above said it was advisable to upgrade them asap. Hmmm, doesn't really seem like it tbh.

My first hospital, now at L5, next upgrade costs 61M. Stats:

L5 Retain ₳50K armies when territory is close, and ₳25K when the territory is far away
Upgrades To
L6 Retain ₳58K armies when territory is close, and ₳29K when the territory is far away


And my most recent hospital, at L1, next upgrade costs 144M. Stats:

L1 Retain ₳3.13M armies when territory is close, and ₳1.56M when the territory is far away
Upgrades To
L2 Retain ₳4.69M armies when territory is close, and ₳2.35M when the territory is far away


So 61M for a 4K savings per captured territory, or 144M for 790K savings per captured territory. For just over double, get over 100x the benefits. And that's after 4 upgrades to get the first one to L5 ... so kind of want my money back for those upgrades, LOL.

Especially with the 2 hr upgrade for hospitals, upgrading the first few doesn't really seem to make sense. Essentially, if you're going ot spend money on upgrading a hospital, you should also stop capturing until the hospital is ready, but the value from upgrading the early ones just doesn't seem to be there tbh.

So hold out for those later ones. They're still a decent bonus in the early game, just don't waste money on them when you could put it into market items, or upgrade for army camps or mines.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/14/2020 21:58:14

pasterma
Level 57
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sorry to interfere...
Actually L1 /L2 /L5 etc nearby the army camps or mines means it has been upgraded 1, 2 or 5 times ?

also what does it mean to "retain some armies "
and how many armies ? fixed number or % of armies used to conquer a territory ?

i havent seen any hospital for now. i am playing on the Japan map and it is not finish yet maybe in higher levels will i meet them.

thanks to all of you for your help.

also, can someone explain me how conquer a territory valued 200M when you income rate is at 5.5K ?
and next army upgrade needs more of W1.5M, ust to get a very low increase, there is something i dont get here.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/15/2020 06:46:22

Splat
Level 58
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The 'L' next to the army camps and mines are those buildings' levels. All upgradable buildings start at level 1 or L1. So if you upgrade a building 5 times, it will say L6, meaning level 6.

As for "Retain some armies," it means when you don't lose some of your armies when you claim a territory. So, if you own a hospital that 'retains' 5M armies, that's 5M armies that don't get spent when conquering a territory.

Now, I too haven't seen any hospitals, so I don't know if the hospitals get applied before or after the Joint Strike advancement, or if it even matters the order, since joint strike keeps a percentage, not a fixed amount liked the hospitals from what I'm gathering above. The reason is because you and I were still in a level when the update happened, and according the update logs that Fizzer posts, any and all map updates that happen while still in a level get applied once you start a new level. Meaning once you and I finish our current levels, we will see the hospitals on the next levels we start.

And about the 200M territory on a 5.5K income. Unless you have any unpurchased mercenaries and/or ways to get money easily to upgrade you army camps, you're going to have to either accept waiting the 10 hours it will take for your army count to get to 200M, or try to get every army draft the moment they appear, which could decrease that time to about 1-2 hours depending on how much the drafts are worth.

Edited 10/15/2020 06:47:18
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/15/2020 08:47:22

pasterma
Level 57
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that is very kind to take some time to help me !

one more thing about that hospital please...
do you mean this: lets say i own an hospital and then i want to conquer a territory for 45M. i would need only 40M instead of 45, is that it ?
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/15/2020 15:30:21

Splat
Level 58
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You still need to hit the 45M, but it will only take 40M. Same is true for using the Joint Strike advancement.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/15/2020 20:15:20

Beland
Level 58
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Do Hospitals stack?
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/15/2020 21:06:52


krby71
Level 44
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I think they do, I don't have any hard numbers.

I am in Peloponnesian War and I have a hospital in Lesbos and Pergammon. They are maxed at L3 302k/151k and L1 2.06M/1.03M. I have just 5 territories left to capture and I saved 102.3161M armies due to hospitals.

That is out of 430.+M armies earned.

I try to locate the hospitals as quickly as possible,
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/15/2020 22:07:37


krinid 
Level 60
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I've done the math to confirm.

- 1st, hospital flat rate saved units are returned off the top. All the hospital savings stack together.
- 2nd, joint strike % saving is calculated from the remaining amount after removing hospital savings.
- 3rd, territory unit count minus the savings from 1 & 2 above are deducted from your current armies count.

Reversing the order of the top 2 would result in slightly more units being returned.

So for my example of a 137.2M territory, 25% joint strike, 4.788M savings from all hospitals, you still need the full 137.2M to capture it, but you retain 39.088M units (4.788M from hospitals, 33.103M from joint strike).
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/15/2020 23:16:48

Dangermouse 
Level 52
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Agree Krinid is correct on the math.

Hospitals are well worth it and initial upgrades are very helpful but the price scales unreasonably for the benefit as you continue to upgrade.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/16/2020 20:47:45

pasterma
Level 57
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while i am at it, and knowing this has nothing to do with the subject, wouls someone please explain me what does "increased Idle Time"
in the advancements would bring .

actually what is this 2 hour idle (sorry for my bad english...

what is happening after 2 hours of "non playing"

many thanks
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/16/2020 20:49:12


krinid 
Level 60
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@pasterma - When you aren't making any moves, the game is "Idle" and you continue earning money and armies for 2 hrs. After 2 hrs of not playing, you stop earning money and armies - that simple.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/16/2020 20:52:41

pasterma
Level 57
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thank you I see

when you say "mov", you mean conquering a territory, right ?

using/chnaging smelters of crafters is not considered as a "move" am i right ?
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/16/2020 20:55:54


krinid 
Level 60
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Hospital update ...

Reconquest 1065
Army Stats
Armies:₳27.2108M
Armies per second:₳7.9042K
Total armies earned:₳5.585B
Total armies from army camps:₳1.3538B
Total mercenaries purchased:₳1.9159B
Total armies from caches:₳1.3522B
Total armies from drafting:₳963.0797M
Total armies saved with Joint Strike:₳1.7652B
Total armies saved from hospitals:₳1.257B

Started this level:3 days 19 hours agoSession age:3 days 14 hours


And my Hospital stats are:
near far
(K) (K)
hosp 1 50 25
hosp 2 427 213
hosp 3 4400 2200
hosp 4 6260 3130
hosp 5 5020 2510
TOTAL 16157 8078

I honestly didn't expect the hospital bonus to add up this quickly ... but somehow it's already saved me ₳1.257B units.

Ok, I'm a hospital fan. Would like to see the impact they have on the longer levels now.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/16/2020 23:14:05


Tribe11
Level 56
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I agree, hospitals are great. The coolest effect that I've found, is that if you can do some exploring and find one early on, you'll be able to use them to conquer a lot of territories without losing any armies at all. I decided to start redoing some levels for AP and went back to floating rocks, started pushing hard early towards the second army camp (it's a bonus reward, so I could see it) and stumbled across a hospital there, and then I basically used the hospital to capture almost all the other territories around me without losing any armies. So my strategy with hospitals is, if you see one, don't attack anything at all until you can capture it.

It does seem like it's a bit pointless to keep upgrading them, they get very expensive fast for a relatively small benefit after the first or second upgrade, so I think it's best to invest in camps/mines/mercs/etc and just keep looking for the next hospital which will have a much higher level. That's been my experience from playing some of the lower levels, at least.

Edit: For this level (I'm about halfway done) with just one hospital (101k-202k) it's saved me 2.6m, with 1.6 from camps, 1.5 from caches, 318k from JS (13%) and 684k mercs, so it's a gigantic benefit.

Edited 10/16/2020 23:19:51
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/17/2020 23:27:06

<3 Peace & Love™ <3
Level 57
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Dislike that my cheapest hospital always shows that damn notification. Maybe it could be marked as ''seen'' indefinitely after the first time.

Oh yeah, maybe their range could be upgraded as well to make it more appealing.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/18/2020 20:57:28

dwaynerudd 
Level 58
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It would be REALLY swell to see something that tells me the savings from all my hospitals in total. I could add them up, but math is hard!

Also, wholeheartedly agree with the "find hospital" button, so I know location before upgrading, since hospitals are the only thing in the game that are position dependent.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/18/2020 22:39:44

<3 Peace & Love™ <3
Level 57
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Getting the first 'stats' upgrade does that
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/18/2020 23:04:51

dwaynerudd 
Level 58
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Where does it show it, I don't see it? I see where it shows how many armies I saved with hospitals retrospectively. what i want to see is how many I will save on my next territory.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/19/2020 18:25:03


Tribe11
Level 56
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@dwaynerudd
It's easy math though lol. Just add them all up and I think @krinid confirmed that hospital effects stack, so just add them all up once and that will be the flat number of armies you're saving every time you attack a territory. Unless you're attacking a territory that's 4 territories or less from a hospital, then you just add the full amount of savings to it. Takes about 10 seconds to count territories, hospital's territory is 0 and the territories it borders are 1, then 2, etc.

For example: I'm playing Siege of Feldmere atm, and my hospitals are:
1- 68k / 34k
2. 954k / 477k
3. 5.32M / 2.66M

So any territory I attack, I save 3.17M. Or right now, I just captured the third hospital, so there are still quite a few territories in the double range. For those territories, I just add the 5.32M instead of the 2.66M, and I'm saving 5.83M on each of those, but the default is 3.17M for territories elsewhere on the map. Any territory with less than 3.17M is free.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/19/2020 19:34:22

dwaynerudd 
Level 58
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lol, yes, easy math, but I've got a stack of 7 hospitals, so it takes a minute. I was thinking something like the ore totals stat, to make it a little easier.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/20/2020 00:30:27

graemes
Level 59
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Keep in mind that some of the “hospital” savings are cannibalizing former Joint Strike savings

e.g. 5M units, 25% JS, 1M hospital

Before, we would’ve saved 1.25M from JS

Now, we save 1M from hospital and 1M from JS. 0.25M of the hospital savings are “fake”.
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/20/2020 15:07:57

dwaynerudd 
Level 58
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Good point in hospitals cannibalizing joint strike. I would like to lobby that it be fixed, with two supporting arguments:
1) Order of operations. Pemdas, anyone (or Bodmas if you're British)? Multiplication comes before addition, that's just basic facts, man.
2) Logically speaking, if a joint strike enterprise means my attacking armies sustain 25% fewer casualties, my hospitals should still be able to save as many of the casualties as before (maybe even save more because of lower surge).
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/20/2020 20:31:37


krinid 
Level 60
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dwaynerudd for pres!

I support your request & think your logical explanation is sound.

Logistically, the presence of hospitals should change nothing in how a Joint Strike attack works (25% savings), in effect it reduces the casualties from the attacking army. Hospitals should in fact be saving casualties of the attacking armies.

Recap, JS reduces the casualties (up front 25% retention), hospitals further heals the thereafter casualties (post-JS flat rate retention).
Hospitals - initial thoughts?: 10/21/2020 15:29:50

graemes
Level 59
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The order of operations argument is poor. It’s completely arbitrary whether MD or AS comes first, we would just utilize parentheses differently to express equations. This is completely a human construct, nothing in nature suggests multiplication comes “before” addition.

Regardless, I agree! It makes no logical sense the way it works right now.
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