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3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/19/2020 16:44:59


krinid 
Level 59
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#1 - What is the purpose of hiding the Tech tree until we unlock the next available item in that branch?Having the info for all Techs available to us on a given level would help to plan a better strategy. That's one issue many people feel is lacking is the ability to build a strategy rather than just clicking, waiting, repeat.

#2 - Especially as one continues in levels, the same Techs inevitably get revealed. They may have different requirements (ingredients/cost) to build, but the names/positions/order/benefits are all the same, so why bother hiding them? It's not a "reveal" anymore, so just show it. If you really feel you need to hide the new Techs unlocked for completion on that level, perhaps just hide those -- but as per #1, I'd suggest even showing those. They're still locked until you upgrade through the entire path, but having something to knowingly work towards gives a sense of purpose to the level.

#3 - Still talk on Techs but a different aspect. Many of us finish up Techs in the final 10% of a level when they now add very little value. Previously we did this just because we were completionists. Now we do it because there are Achievements for it. I feel something needs to be done for the later Techs in the tree to have a purpose for existing other than getting the Achievement. Some of require gold bars, transistors, glass, etc - stuff that either takes a long time and/or money to smelt or craft, so the of the level arrives before these Techs can be used in a meaningful manner. I've even put off finishing a level to finish up getting some Techs - which just seems counterintuitive as nothing of it carries over into the next level.

#4 - Something should carry over into the next level. I get the AP factor, and that's great and is fine as-is. But how well you complete a level should also have some impact on the next level you play. If you complete it quickly, with all Techs, have high army/money income, etc. Maybe this applies only to the replays of that same map? Throw some bonus to the players who do this to reward doing a map well. Perhaps reveal some of the key locations/objects? Higher starting resources (10% of the rates you had @ time of level completion)? Additional caches? Cheaper/more mercs? Maybe it's finishing it within a certain # of hours (equivalent of a Gold Star?), maybe it's getting all the Techs, maybe it's earning a total amount of armies/money/etc. Anyhow, the point is that the income that "continues forever" immediately disappears at time of level completion, even when revisting the same level. So even if your lore of each level being a different and unique world where the money/etc is a different currency, revisiting the level should have some trace of having been there before. This would add an additional element to the game, and make replays more enjoyable.
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/19/2020 18:21:49


Mars
Level 55
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my 5 cents

1 - trial/error is nice, also gives room for the community to gather and look up for different strategies, besides on longterm your desired outcome will probably happen

2 - feels like the same as 1

3 - they clearly seem to not be that useful in early stages of the game but again it seems like they're designed more for the long run

4 - i really feel like current "carry over" resources (AP and boosts) are enough for now, this kind of game benefits from a primary 'soft' resource and a secondary 'hard', 'carry-over' resource
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/19/2020 19:39:54


krinid 
Level 59
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1 - Disagree, trial/error is not nice, and the # of hrs required to finish a level can change vastly.

2 - #1 says don't hide anyhing. #2 says if you still feel the need to hide them, at don't hide them once they've been unlocked once on a level. Perhaps they're hidden until you unlock them, but then they're visible in all levels going forward, b/c you've already revealed them. Hiding them again seems artificial and inconvenient. We know what it is, where it is, what it does, just annoying to have to write it down or remember it instead of just showing it.

3 - Techs are absolutely useful in the early stages of the game, just often not possible to acquire. Notably the Techs for Drafting, 10% more armies from camps & 10% more ore from mines are hugely valuable in the early game. But some Techs aren't achievable until late in the level and thus are never put to use because you've already finished most of the map, so who cares if you (for example) make all items sell for 10% more when you have no need to sell anything anymore?

4 - AP is enough for now, I agree. I disagree that the rest is enough though ... replaying a level lacks a benefit of having cleared it already. In fact, you may get less b/c the power ups may be gone (can only collect twice). Increasing replay value of a game is always a good thing, so it's not just another slog for AP, but actually a different experience than the first time through. Didn't understand your point on "primary 'soft' resource and a secondary 'hard', 'carry-over' resource". Carry over = AP? What are primary soft & secondary hard?
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/19/2020 22:29:22

Sasquatch Bohogotot 
Level 57
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If only so many ORE items are exposed per each map advancement, then there is no need to expose all the Techs. Hiding them also gives players something to look forward to, like how the whole game is set up, players get new things ever map they advance. If it were not this way, I could see myself getting board sooner. I love the new thing I expose when advancing to the next level, adds excitement to the game for me and helps keep me interested.

I am still finding myself when down too the last 25% of map to take, resources disappear fast. No mercenaries left to bye. As for uselessness of techs and why some seem not needed is to prepare you for the next map a little and what to expect. As for a true use for the techs, building a community would be the next step, SIMS?

Edited 8/19/2020 22:32:46
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/20/2020 04:34:26


krinid 
Level 59
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@Sasquatch

I don't mean show the entire tree from level 1 including the ones which don't apply to that level, nor to make them all available from level 1. I mean just show the ones you've already unlocked. So if you're on level 7 and you've unlocked the first 10, show those 10 when you start the next level. It helps you plan what ores/bars/items to make.

You still get new stuff each level that you didn't have on the previous level.

This recommendation is trying to mitigate the frustration of when you progress to the end of the tech tree and to the end of the level and then find out that the next tech requires quantity 10 of an item that takes 5 hrs to craft each.
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/20/2020 20:10:08

Santa Claus
Level 59
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What if the carry-over was only for the same level...

If you play the same level, if you unlock that tech in a previous game, it is now less to unlock in a subsequent game.

Obviously some tweaking would be needed, but maybe 33% cheaper for a replay?
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/20/2020 21:20:20


JK_3 
Level 60
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1. the hiding the tech thing is part of the exploration that Fizzers wants players to do. Part of the exploration is also finding out how expensive techs are, and what new techs will be in a level. However, I wouldn't mind if the symbols and required items (not # of items, but just the type) would be displayed for techs you "discovered" in a previous level
2. see 1.
3. unlocking tech last is a choice you have. You can upgrade mines instead of army camps, use your money for shops instead of mercenaries. While upgrading, focus on crafter and mine related items first, before doing army upgrades. That way you will unlock the techs a lot quicker than you would do now. (But your progress through the level goes a lot slower.) WZI has many ways of playing, prioritizing armies over items is just the way most people do it.
4. the point of an idle game is that nothing carries over to the level, except for you "premium currency" (AP in the case of WZI). If you start rewarding extra stuff based on how good or bad someone played a level, they cant play it idle anymore.
You can get the the same power only twice per level, so after you replay it a lot of times, no powers are left for you to take. I think this should stay so, to prevent tutorial farming.
As with all idle games, you're not supposed to replay. You are supposed to pay to advance as fast as possible. Grinding replays is made easier by the AP you are getting, which should make the replay easier since you spend it on some (quite pricey) upgrades.
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/21/2020 12:42:33


krinid 
Level 59
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@JK

1. The problem with this "exploration" is that these "discoveries" often arbitrarily add 20-30 hours to completing a level that you've essentially already beaten just to get the Techs completed and get no benefit from having the Tech unlocked on the level we're actually playing. These "arbitrary" additions are facilitated by revealing a new Tech and "discovering" that you need to make 30 Glass items or 5 Transistors or 5 Resistors or 3 Gold bars, etc. All of these take a long time and require extensive planning to make happen, but without knowing that this is coming in the final stage of the map, it's difficult to plan for. Not all Recipes that come up are required for Techs, and creating them costs resources that could be used on other items, and making them and not needing them is wasteful. Imagine making 10 Bolts & 5 Gold bars & 5 Transistors trying to guess the needs of the last wave of Techs only to find you need 15 Welding Rods and 30 Glass and 5 Resistors & 10 Exploding Bolts? Hours wasted, and it's arbitrarily thrown in a time when we know players will have almost nothing left to do except postpone the end of level for the sake of completing the Techs.

2. I think we agree that unlocked Tech from previous levels makes sense to not hide. It's no longer "exploration" if we've already unlocked, upgraded, used it, know about it, but it's hidden anyway. We know it's there. At best, it's a rediscovery. Like walking into a room and "rediscovering" the light switch. We reach for it b/c we know it's there. No surprises.

For example, let's say someone just started playing Copper Creek - in the Tech tree on the far left branch, you can see Drafting, but everything below it is hidden. What's the first upgrade after Drafting? Basic Recruitment for Increase armies given from army camps by 15%, right? How do we know this? Because you've unlocked it, upgraded it, used it and know all about it from Huruey, Floating Rocks, War OTW, Ursa:Luna, Final Earth, Drakemor, Peoponnesian War, K-PX, Feldmere & Sengoku. It's the same upgrade, so what "exploration" is left? So no value in re-hiding it despite it being the same upgrade in the same location.

3. RE: "Unlocking is a choice you have." --> I unlock each Tech as quickly as I can. I'm not putting them off until the end of the level, but rather the time when I finally get the ability to unlock these Techs in the final layers of the Tech tree always comes at the end of the level. Yes, I have the option of taking a very inefficient route of completing a level in order to not have the Techs as the last thing I do before completing a level. But why do this? Just for the sake of Techs not coming last? This only nominally addresses the issue by creating an even bigger issue (vastly extends overall clear time). It artificially makes the grind harder to be able to claim that the Techs weren't last. If you want to discuss inefficient options available, we also have the option to capture no territories, make no upgrades at all and wait 1 year checking back in every 2 hours until Idle time makes my resources accumulate enough to finish the entire level in one frantic clicking frenzy. Such option (or "choices" as you phrased it) exist including the one you suggested, but so what? They're bad options.

4. Decent point RE: not being Idle if performance grants rewards. So not performance based, just minor benefits like showing things that were "unlocked" on previous levels or playthroughs for all regardless of performance.

RE: "As with all idle games, you're not supposed to replay." Disagree -- if this were truly the intent, there wouldn't be additional AP offered for replays. The fact that AP is granted AND power ups can be picked up twice indicates that you are encouraged to replay older levels.
3 Tech discussions + 1 other: 8/21/2020 13:35:10

[V.I.W] recruiting time! Join us !
Level 63
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3- it's way faster to maximize armies.
On The Siege of Feldmere in 24 hours I have pushed on armies and collected all the mines on the map and all the chest / boosts ( except the one costing 29 M).
However the second "decrease cost of upgrading army camps" is still far to be taken. Meanwhile I have already upgraded every camp from lvl 5 to lvl 12.

it's not really a choice. You need crafters/materials to get the rarer elements to take the tech. So you are forced to invest in armies, explore the map, take mines.
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