<< Back to Warzone Classic Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 25 of 25   
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 7/10/2020 09:19:53


Phobos 
Level 62
Report
Introduction

I enjoyed Yaxvi's 2v2 and 3v3 ladder guides and decided to write my own on picking the 1v1 ladder. This guide is targetted at beginners who need help in figuring out what to pick and intermediate players who want to improve their game. While I've had my fair share of success on the ladder (peak rank 1, peak rating 2281), there are better players out there whose input I would value. I decided to focus this guide on picking since I find play less guidable than picking.

In order this guide will discuss three major picking strategies: fast-income, counter-picking, and intel-coverage picking. Finally, there will be a section about sizing up boards.


Pick strategy 1: Fast Income

Pros: Straight forward and easy to figure out
Cons: Vulnerable to more sophisticated strategies

The principle behind fast income is simple: get income as quickly as possible and overwhelm your opponent from your quick start. Fast-income looks to maximize income at the end of turn 1, turn 2, or turn 3. It is most effective when you can encounter your opponent after your peak turn and steamroll them from there. Fast-income loses to superior coverage/expansion in long games and is also the most vulnerable to counter-picking. Even when adopting a different strategy fast income benchmarks are useful to keep in mind.

First turn bonuses (8 or 9 income): The fastest of fast income is first-turn bonuses. Four efficient 3s (Scandinavia, Central America, Antarctica, South East Asia) can be taken in a single turn with two well place picks. Additionally there are a few 4 bonuses that can be triple picked (West Africa, West Russia, Central Russia) for a quite risky but super fast start. Since FTBs require combo picking you want to make sure both picks are useful and that you can afford to sink two picks in an area. Another note: choose your picks such that 1st pick beats 2nd pick in event of a split. FTB splits are quite common if both player pick for fast income. For example in the Greenland-Scan bonus combo it is generally better to pick Greenland 1st and Scan second even though Scan is the bonus you're picking for. I frequently see players make the mistake of always picking the 3 bonus first. Lastly if you pick an FTB you'll want your third pick you springboard of it. Frequently a 3 or 4 on the other side of the board is the best bet for netting some coverage and a good second turn income.

Example (roll): https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=21291986 Dragonseance takes Greenland-Scan bonus and rolls an opponent who picks um "less efficiently"

Example (split): https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=22095452 Both Bechaa and Suschel pick the Aus-Antarctica bonus for a split. They also both take Scan as a nice balance 3rd pick.

Second turn bonuses (10, 11, 12 income): 10 in 2 can be accomplished by double full turn investment in an efficient 5 (East US, Australia, Greenland, East Russia). 11 can be accomplished 3 ways. Two efficient 3s with double full investment. A first turn bonus 3 and a balance 3. Or lastly by double-picking west china. West china is a gamble but an extremely potent one that can overwhelm other strategies as long as it isn't countered. 12 is the best income achievable in 2 turns but usually involves sacrificing turn 3 income. As such it is best when you expect to encounter your opponent at the end of 2 turns. To get 12 requires a double pick on either a 3 (this can be an FTB) or a 4 with the 3rd pick being in the complementary bonus.

Example (West China): https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=22797319 west china double provides the income to safely swap bonus breaks in the americas.

Example (12 by 2): https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=21171389 double pick on central and west russia gives the fast income to challenge IRise immediately. On the central america - East US border.

Third turn bonuses (14, 15 or 16 income): Usually involves completing all your starting picks in the first 3 turns. 14 can be achieved by three efficient 3s or west china plus a 3. 15 can be done by two efficient 3s and a 4 or west china and a 4. 16 is perhaps the classic combo and is two efficient 3s and an efficient 5. 16 by 3 is the biggest income reason to settle for 10 by 2 as it can give you excellent board spread as well. Much like first turn bonuses it is vulnerable to counter strategies.

Example (16 by 3): https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=21005818 So I actually struggled to find a game from the high ladder where it was picked and the player got all 3 picks and completed all 3 bonuses before encountering the opponent. Here NZPhoenix picks the 16 by 3 but has to delay after turn 2 to deal with hexe.

In summary fast income is a straightforward strategy that can build a wave of momentum that you ride to victory. When opting for another picking strategy, these bench marks are almost always useful to keep in mind as what your opponent can be doing. While this could be extended to turn 4 and turn 5 in general at that point we're getting to points in the game where having the fastest income is not as important.

Pick strategy 2: Counter picking

Pros: Can instant win games when your opponent walks into the trap
Cons: Most effective when opponent walks into a trap

While fast income is focused on building early momentum and riding that to a victory, counter picking is about using your opponents momentum and having them charge headlong off a cliff. Absolutely devastating when implemented correctly, counter picking has one major flaw: to be at its best it requires your opponent to unwittingly walk into a trap. Counter picking has two components: the counter, and the support.

So what do we want to counter? Juicy income targets that our opponent is unlikely to pass up. First turn bonuses make plum targets. Second turn efficient 5s do as well.

How do we counter it? Your 3rd pick is the last pick you'll get if none of your picks get taken. For a blind counter (no intel) you want to pick the counter by your 3rd pick. For an informed counter you'll want to pick what you're countering 3rd and your counter 4th or 5th. For an FTB a common strategy is to pick the FTB 3-4, and the FTB counter 5th. This has the advantage of if your opponent doesn't go for the FTB you may get it yourself. In rare instances you may want to delay your counter picks from 3-4-5 to 4-5-6. This is if there are high value 1 and 2 spots that you aren't countering or if your opponent may also 3-4-5 counter. When 1 and 2 are contested, 4-5-6 will beat 3-4-5 by getting only 1 spot in the triple.

Example FTB counter: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=22834441 I 3-4-5 counter the FTB and just sit there netting a quick surrender.

Example 2 turn 5 counter: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=23047915 here, both Schmidt and I put East US third and a counter 4th. Alas pick order is cruel and I lose by getting 1st pick resulting in my having East US and Schmidt having the counter.

While the counter is the feature of a good counter pick, what you need is supporting income to make sure you win after devastating your opponent. You don't need to hit the fast income benchmarks, but you also don't want to be stuck on base income. You also want the support to be good enough that if your opponent doesn't fall into the counter you have a decent shot at winning the game. Remember you're usually going to be investing in your counter so 2 turns of full investment is usually a non-option. Efficient 3s, 2 turn 4s, and 4 double picks all make good supporting income for a counter-pick.

Pick strategy 3: Intel Coverage Picking

Pros: Very difficult to beat in the hands of the right player
Cons: Can be hard to implement correctly

Intel coverage picking trades a fast start for knowing where your opponent is and how to beat them in the long run. It is the style of picking I see many top players in the game embrace, and is the hardest to describe in a guide. The idea is to construct a pick set that does the following: 1) Lets you know where your opponent is, 2) Covers the board so you can construct a path to victory, 3) provides safety so that you don't lose to a faster strategy.

Intel-coverage picking implements elements of both fast income and counter picking. You won't be focused on hitting the absolute best benchmarks for turns 1-2-3 but you'll want to be close. There's no point in knowing where your opponent is if you can't beat them. Maybe you take a 3 and two 4s for 9 by turn 2, 12 by turn 3 and 16 by turn 4.

Like counter picking you'll be seeing where your opponent is by putting things you think they might pick in the 2-5 range, only this time you won't be picking direct counters. You can put an FTB 3-4 just to see that your opponent has it, and then a 5th pick elsewhere on the board.

Example: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=23111710 1: Central America covers the americas and through
2-3 Africa covers africa and gives me access to Europe/Russia the only region Central America doesn't cover. If I get 1-2-3 I'm fine. Scan is another solid bonus with coverage on an area I'm weak on. Ant hits Africa if I lose 2-3. 6 Greenland lets me handle my own picks if I lose 1-4-5. An argument can be made I'd be better off with a different 6 pick somewhere in Asia.

Ran out of characters section on sizing up boards in next post.

Edited 9/6/2020 02:10:14
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 7/10/2020 09:20:11


Phobos 
Level 62
Report
Putting it together and sizing up boards

Not all MME boards are created equal. On some a strategy just leaps out at you and others all the options seem either equally terrible or equally great. Regardless of what your primary strategy is you'll want to balance considerations of speed, expansion and coverage.

For my picks I generally want efficient bonuses. Inefficient bonuses can be used for potent combos or for important coverage/safety. Wastelanded bonuses I'll only pick as hard counters.

First look: Efficient 3s and 5s. The efficient 3s (Scan, Central America, Antarctica, and South East Asia) are the glue to most picking strategies. They're fast income with excellent positions as well. The efficient 5s on the other hand (East US, Greenland, Australia, East Russia) are big ticket items that carry a better army-cost to income ratio. Efficient 4s fall in between not being as fast as 3s or as powerful as 5s. West China as the only 6 on the board is its own special category. As such I'm studying the 3s and 5s first. Are there any FTBs? Are these great bonuses covered in wastelands or mostly wasteland free. Any obvious counters? etc. etc.

Second look: Wastelands. Wastelands shape the board by limiting picking options and creating zones of expansion and safety. I'm looking for if there is a major income zone nearly wasteland free. If there is I want to have some coverage there. Secondly is there a block of income I can use wastelands to make safe? If you have wastelands in Central Russia, and Greenland then Scan + West Russia can be very good as Europe, Caucasus, and Middle East are usually low priority picks. Sometimes you get a board where nearly everything good seems to be wastelanded. Plan to encounter your opponent early and squeezing out early income. Sometimes you get a board where the wastelands leave too many good things: play for coverage and a long game.

For expansion, I value overall quantity and safety over efficiency. Africa has two inefficient 3s, but if I can take the entire continent without fear of my opponent it's good expansion. North America has two inefficient 5s, but also two efficient 5s and an efficient 3 for a whopping 23 income. East Asia is the most income rich part of the board, but also tends to be vulnerable from all sides.

Special note on West China: In general I consider West China an anti-strategy. Its a gamble that gets to the fast income numbers off only one bonus. West China is riddled with double borders and easy to attack from all sides, but since you're double picking it you'll have at least one side covered. If you can get wasteland safety it becomes better. If you expect your opponent to pick other things (like an FTB), it becomes better. Its never my go to but always something I have in mind as an option for either myself or my opponent.


Putting it all together:

I want to prioritize in order

1. Coverage: don't leave anything open you straight lose to, make sure you have good expansion opportunities

2. Income: make sure your numbers are good enough for your respective strategy

3. Strategy: I want a plan for the game from turn 0. However, if my plan neglects the two points above I need to come up with a new plan.

Edited 7/10/2020 09:59:32
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/3/2020 18:52:09


OvertForeigner
Level 56
Report
nice let's keep this alive so people can ask questions
- downvoted post by l4v.r0v
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/4/2020 12:52:22


L
Level 28
Report
Naisu
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/25/2020 12:06:28

JaiSh123
Level 58
Report
Bump.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/25/2020 12:52:11

[V.I.W] recruiting time! Join us !
Level 63
Report
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=23111710

I'm not sure those picks are that good.
You are lucky your oppo took Africa combom giving you a lot of intel. If not you had bad expansion in late game.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/27/2020 00:11:59


Phobos 
Level 62
Report
Not really, good expansion is relative. Most of that board has tragically bad expansion. The parts of the board that don't aren't very secure.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/28/2020 08:42:26

[V.I.W] recruiting time! Join us !
Level 63
Report
"The parts of the board that don't aren't very secure"

should we conclude that for Phobos : Secure bonus > Expansion ?
that' s exactly what i was stating : you left half the map unchecked, the part that has free expansion and it's viceversa less secure
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/29/2020 00:35:14

Nauzhror 
Level 58
Report
"https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=23111710

I'm not sure those picks are that good.
You are lucky your oppo took Africa combom giving you a lot of intel. If not you had bad expansion in late game."

I'd go so far as to say you're being generous. I think those picks are terrible. East US, South America, Australia, South Africa all wastelanded makes Greenland the only half-decent expansion aside from trying to go through the opponent in West Russia.

The opponent screwed their expansion turn 2 by not hitting Sudan. Otherwise I pick them to win, especially since Botswana being wastelanded makes the Africa combo a lot safer than it otherwise would be.

TL;DR, Robert E Lee won the game off picks IMO, and lost the game turn 2 by showing us why he's a 1850 elo player and not a 2000+ player.

Edited 8/29/2020 00:36:50
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/29/2020 00:42:32

Nauzhror 
Level 58
Report
https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=20803108

There's an example of 16 income by turn 3 where I did pull it off before encountering the opponent.

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=20726025

Someone being punished for being way too predictable.

Edited 8/29/2020 00:49:12
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 8/31/2020 07:09:30

[V.I.W] recruiting time! Join us !
Level 63
Report
damn, I didnt check Robert expansion. absurd.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/5/2020 00:35:20


Phobos 
Level 62
Report
@Nauz

west us is good expansion on that map and it can go further into all the asia bonuses. At no point was I worried about losing the game, and turn 4 I assumed Robert E Lee had 13. The fact that he didn't was hilarious.

@Ilpeggiore,

In general I prefer safety to expansion, but there's always exceptions. I'm not worried about the Asia bonuses because it is trivially easy to send a stack through hawaii and Japan to break them all.

Edited 9/5/2020 00:47:06
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 01:41:19

Nauzhror 
Level 58
Report
If he expands properly and gets up 13 vs 11, and pressures Scandi you're not taking West US without dying in Scandi and/or losing Antarctica. I do not think you have a chance after picks vs a competent opponent.

Edited 9/6/2020 01:41:54
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 02:08:12


Phobos 
Level 62
Report
I think we've reached the point in this discussion where further argument is pointless. Suffice to say I think you're very wrong about how the game plays out, but there are so many unknowns and decision points that we can't map it out exactly. I think you're gravely overrating a 2 income advantage.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 13:00:09


waffle
Level 57
Report
On the contrary, I'm curious what the answer is, considering Phobos and Nauzhror both seem to have credentials to claim to be right.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 14:02:33


Farah♦ 
Level 61
Report
I think it's rather easy.

Had Robert E Lee expanded correctly in East Africa on turn two, Phobos is never breaking Africa, as he is at an income disadvantage and can't get a double border; Botswana is wastelanded.
That leaves you to fight in Scandinavia and West Russia, with 2 income disadvantage. Now, you may be able to take West US, albeit very slowly as you can't get eliminated in Scan/Russia, but Robert can take North Africa while you're doing that.
So, Robert: safe income, some expansion in North Africa and income advantage
Phobos: safe income, slow expansion in West US and income disadvantage.
Had Robert not messed up his expansion, this should've been a clear win for him, if he'd know how to play.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 17:03:08


Phobos 
Level 62
Report
Sigh... I'm right, Farah and Nauz are wrong in the sense that it is not trivially easy to win the game from Robert E Lee's picks. But, I don't think any of us are going to budge from our positions.

Can Robert E Lee win from those picks? Yes. Did he play it stupidly? Yes. Is it easy to win from Robert E Lee's picks? No. Will Nauz and Farah disagree with this? Yes. Was this a bad game for a picking guide? Yes. Let's move on.

I guess the only value to the thread in this discussion is you can see how players of similar skill level can have wildly different game evaluations.

Edited 9/6/2020 17:11:03
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 17:09:51


Farah♦ 
Level 61
Report
I'm not trying to say it's easy to win from Robert's picks. Rather, that if he'd expanded correctly, he'd have the advantage. Given similar play from both players, an advantageous position should win you the game. That doesn't mean that he's without a doubt going to win, of course!
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 21:08:41

Nauzhror 
Level 58
Report
"I think we've reached the point in this discussion where further argument is pointless. Suffice to say I think you're very wrong about how the game plays out, but there are so many unknowns and decision points that we can't map it out exactly. I think you're gravely overrating a 2 income advantage."

I asked both Rufus and AI on discord. All three of us thought you lost off picks.

I think it is trivially easy to win with Roberts picks. If I had his picks, and lost, vs anyone, I'd be ashamed of myself. That's not to say if I got your picks I'd surrender turn 1 vs him, a lot of people play poorly, and against an opponent who does so, as we see, your picks can win.

Edited 9/6/2020 21:15:58
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/6/2020 22:34:26


berdan131
Level 59
Report
Actually it's possible to win with bad picks if you're a time traveler and can predict your opponents future moves.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/7/2020 17:23:05

[V.I.W] recruiting time! Join us !
Level 63
Report
after reviewing the game I have to agree that Glass has lost on picks.

i also think it wasn't correct to attack Africa with just 3 turn 3. better to attack with 7 or so

@berdan,

in this case , robert playing good, turn3, glass had -2 income and +4 armies in north. The issue is that he is very far from completing Scandy, while the southern wasteland permits the defender to play safe. He needs 6 for defend, and can deploy 7 north. Glass needs to be perfect and trade profitably 4 turns to be even.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/9/2020 02:21:19


Cowboy 
Level 60
Report
You should ask mod how to pick on the 1v1 ladder. He only needs to teach you how to pick 3.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/9/2020 22:15:47


Phobos 
Level 62
Report
Actually it's possible to win with bad picks if you're a time traveler and can predict your opponents future moves.

Shh.... don't tell anyone.
1v1 Ladder Strategic Picking Guide: 9/11/2020 22:54:38

KaelF 
Level 58
Report
@brendan, Not true unless you physically disconnect the oppo internet or before the game was made, it is possible that you could end up in the worst places possible and still lose
Posts 1 - 25 of 25