Its the usa or them

USA USA USA USA USA IM FROM THE USA SO ILL DIE IN THE USA
BETTER THEN CHINAS CUROPTED NATION

Such a narrow vision - you're either with us or against us

I rest my case.........

well traveled european university student arguing with an american high school student whose view of the world is conditioned by fox news, cnn and the like.

no prereqs on the forum.

Edited 6/16/2014 12:22:51

Wow, some threads I don't visit on principle since the name of the thread suggests it was made up by a 5-year old and I expect the thread to die a quick and painless death. I'm going to play around a bit with some quotes.

Richar Sharpe page 1:

The irony in all of this of course is that the US gets criticized for intervening in situations but then also gets criticized for NOT intervening.

That goes for basically every political decision you make.

Wohoo page 2:

The only intelligent way to control population is to allow people to have as many children as they want, but then require those children to compete for available space upon the month of their 21st birthday. They would have to compete with their same age group. They would have to compete against nature, allowing nature to perform its job of natural selection. Each of them must have electronic trackers on them reporting location and vital statistics. Place them in a jungle location naked and unarmed and allow nature to kill off the slow runners, crippled and sick. When the number alive gets low enough to result in a controlled population, we pull out the winners and have Earth's population under permanent control and allow people to have as many children as they please. This is such a good approach, because it provides a large workforce of young workers before they enter the natural selection process and we need this workforce. Also a large population of children is important if we face some kind of natural disaster or ET war.

Hahaha, good one.

Ranek page 2:

overpopulation is real indeed, but

As history showed, Thomas Malthus was absolutely right and we are already on the verge of extinction/economic depression. Oh wait...

Leo page 3:

The USA has no intention of taking over the world, merely molding it to its needs. We could have ended all the African crisis years ago, however we profit from it, by selling arms, and getting cheap goods from Africa. We could stop the drug trade, but it does make America profit to some degree. We can do anything, but we are content to merely pull the strings in the background. We may not have most nukes anymore, but we have to most powerful and the most long range capable, we can put a nuclear missile right in Putin's window if we want, but we just wait.

Hahaha... wait, that actually makes some sense... And he is from rp clan?

One day, one day soon this world of ours is going to fall to crap, and a new World War will begin, war is the only thing that brings stability, in the past after major wars, patriotism in all nations rose, and so did economies, thus creating the post WW1 and 2 booms, then Korea and Vietnam kept patriotism high until desert storm, 9-11 rose it again, now the US is ending Afghanistan, and it will rise ever so slightly and the returning soldiers will add to the economy.

Oh nevermind, hahaha.

Lolowut page 4:

About the whole China vs America argument, I would say China survives by manufacturing things for us and investing in us. We're their main market. In a conflict, not only do we shut down our market to them, but we have a large enough Navy that they won't be able to trade overseas without defeating it. Their government is not as stable as most people in here suggest. If it took a major economic hit I don't think the Government could still hold as much sway.

Yes, US would love to stop trading with China, especially stop Chinese from buying their bonds and exporting debt...

Economically while America may take a hit, it would not be as drastic as what would happen to the Chinese. I'm not sugarcoating it, I'm comparing the two. The hit would be large for both, but America sustains better footing as our hands are in many more markets than the Chinese and we would never be blockaded so overseas trade keeps flowing.

That is actually a very interesting economic point of debate deserving a complete separate thread, I won't even try to sum up all the points in a few sentences.

ARC-77 page 5:

Historically, world prosperity has been seen at its greatest when there is a strong power in that sector of the world (Rome, Greece, height of the British Empire). When a strong, localized "policeman" nation is not present within a certain sector, that area falls to ruin (Western Europe and the feudal era after the fall of Rome in 476 A.D., the 1700's during the fall of the British Empire).

Yes, it's best to make an analogy between current economy and situations that have nothing to do with current economy. Since he used the words let's take a history lesson, i'm going to outsource the rest of his future posts in this thread to Gui in search of historical inaccuracies.

ahahah. Ameriga want world?

USA OR NOTHING FOR ME, AND I DONT EVEN HAVE CABLE TO WATCH FOX NEWS NOR CNN. THERE BULLSHIT, THEN THERES SOME TRUE, LIKE THE WEATHER. ITS ALL WAYS SUNNY IN SOUTH ARIZONA

Well... all this trolling is confusing me. Let me just remind you what happened the last time we tried to take over a region :

1)U.S. goes into Iraq to "topple" the "evil WMD wielding dictator" Saddam Hussein.

2)U.S. and their lapdog Britain along with a few other nations use some Shock & Awe on Iraqi forces, quickly disposing of them, their outdated Soviet Armor, and driving to Bagdad

3)War news goes home, conservative and militaristic Americans get pumped up and excited about tearing up a small, outdated military with a 4 nation, up-to-date coalition.

4)Anti-Bush people feed off of the images they see of explosions, starving and wounded children, dead animals, etc., and get angry over the U.S.'s policy.

5)International communist (FEATURING: P.R. China, Russia, North Korea, India, Western Europe, etc.) catches wind of the news and shows it off as a prime example of American Imperialism ('Oil wars')

6)After Iraq falls, Jihadist groups fill in the power vacuum, making their presence known by ambushing and shocking U.S. and allied soldiers. The Coalition reveals that it needs more troops and more funding to stop these mercenary trained, Soviet Era weapon wielding soldiers.

7)British get ticked off about being involved in an American war.

8)Terrorist activity dies down, much debate in the U.S. presidential election is focused on getting troops out of the "worthless, endless dunes of Iraq, where all people hate us" (I wonder why...)

9) Obama withdraws US troops in I believe 2009. Apparently he leaves Special Forces and U.S. hired mercenaries in the nation though.

---

Now, this seems like a disaster but consider the long term consequences:

a) Iran, enemy #1 of the U.S. Middle Eastern Policy emerges as the last opposing power in the Middle East after its rival, Iraq was destroyed. -1 Enemy for Iran. The worst thing; Iran cannot be bought by U.S. dollars like Saudi Arabia can.

b) Who's still filling the power vacuum? The Jihadist groups are back and better than every guys... They're having a great time picking off ****-trained Iraqi soldiers and liberating the buddies from prison. I'm glad we kicked ol' Evil Saddam out and let the Jihadists in...

One word: Disaster.

Im just saying if WW3 coms whoeyou joining china? russia?
Idont know about you but im with the people of america THE PEOPLE not NWO GOVERNTMENT OF AMERICA
THE PEOPLE

Edited 6/16/2014 17:09:57

1)U.S. goes into Iraq to "topple" the "evil WMD wielding dictator" Saddam Hussein.

You forgot step 0: The U.S. supports Saddam Hussein to get to the power in Iraq

@Aranka the korean War as well as viet nam were both about protecting capitalist countries from communist invaders. While korea was a decent success for America, the NVA's great use of sun tzu tactics made them the victors of their way. I won't argue that after a while the viet nam war was a waste. The war in Iraq was a -facepalm- from the start.

... answer: because people keep making threads like this.

Thanks Lolowut for your contribution, but you still didnt answer my question. Unfortunately it's hard to reply on your confusing facts which seem to lack in any context. Im sure its better to not go further into it.

@ szeweningen
the five-year old seem to made you curious enough, with this infantile headline of this ridiculous theme, to read the entire thread and most fortunately you also made a mature comment in the end. I very much appreciate that^^

Edit: Bob, whats wrong with the thread? =)

Edited 6/17/2014 00:05:17

Ranek, again I already answered you talking about how our standard of living (rank 4) and economy are high. Consider how large our country is (314 million people) and the fact we lack a lot of the socialist/communist policies that are supposed to raise the standard of living, it's quite impressive. Other than that it's hard to describe what makes America #1 because it all depends on what your preferences in a country are. Militarily, we're #1. Economically, we're #1. How do you quantify socially? There are rankings of which America isn't #1, but I enjoy the social policies I live under in Texas, so to me the social policies in Texas are #1.

Also, if you are confused on the facts I posted, I can link you sources and books to read to clarify.

@sze

While the economies and cultural structures of these relatively ancient empires and nations may not utilize the same technology or knowledge as today, the basic principles that dictated the course of said economies and cultures is the same as those that dictate the socioeconomic conditions of most major powers today.


As to the U.S.'s economic relations with China:

China's economy is indeed approaching the economy of the U.S., but most all of the world's leading economists agree that China's strategy of a massive class separation is unsustainable in the long-run. The U.S. is indeed dependent, currently, on the manufacturing capabilities of China, but so too, as many people overlook, is China's manufacturing machine dependent on trade with the U.S. In all likelihood, it is only a matter of time before China's economic strategy comes back to bite them and their economy will begin to fall.

Looking back again to history's lessons, I am not foolish enough to think that the U.S.'s economy or culture will last any more than a couple of hundred years. Especially in this more internationally communicative climate, the U.S. will certainly begin to fall soon enough. I don't want to send the message that I believe this nation will last for a thousand generations or anything silly like that, but it takes an enormous fall to cause a runner with a 3000 meter lead to fall back to second place in a marathon.

Edited 6/17/2014 04:31:28

Thanks Lolowut for your patience

Other than that it's hard to describe what makes America #1 because it all depends on what your preferences in a country are. Militarily, we're #1. Economically, we're #1. How do you quantify socially?

we could start with some basic stuff like: state health insurance, human rights, imprisonment per head, armed civilians, racial discrimination, state legalized torture, imprisonment without trial, capital punishment, state legalized murder abroad, TTIP, International Investment Agreements, genetic manipulated food and super resistent pests due to overbred monocultures, creationism in science-teaching, NSA CIA affairs, police-state surveillance

All of what you said are different per state. Texas has cheap health insurance that I could afford with a simple job due to realty being also cheap. Human rights is fine. Imprisonment per head differs from State to State and City to City. I see nothing wrong with armed civilians. Racial discrimination, we seem to shovel a lot of money over to minorities. I'd rather racial equality. Isn't this situational? It's a major gray area and slippery slope, so it depends how well it's handled. Again, gray area/slippery slope. Another thing I'm fine with. I don't understand this one, please supply some context. What's your beef with this? I guess you view some of these positively, but it all seems negative. Again dunno what your beef is with this. Mistakes happen in science all the time, this isn't specific to America. Give it a couple years and a solution will be found. I was taught evolution in my school and I live in Texas. It varies. People will wise up eventually. You're fooling yourself if you don't think every government does this to some extent. It's good and bad, but it will be scaled down. Good and bad, it's very hard to stop this sort of surveillance given the level of our technology. Cell phones are easily traceable, so is your FB and etc. etc. Drones should be taken out of the equation, but then again satellites are still there. It's all a mess atm for every country.

Notice how all this is debatable to some extent? You can't quantify emotions and opinions. I may have an opinion that the US Military is not #1, but that opinion doesn't matter because it is the biggest military with the biggest budget and the most updated technology.

Social policy is all opinion based. Capital punishment may seem like a terrible thing to you and may have scientific evidence proving that it is not the most efficient path to go, but I think it's a fair punishment given the circumstances it is called for whether or not it's an efficient path socially.

While the economies and cultural structures of these relatively ancient empires and nations may not utilize the same technology or knowledge as today, the basic principles that dictated the course of said economies and cultures is the same as those that dictate the socioeconomic conditions of most major powers today.

Yeah, very true, except a few minor details like, financial markets, transfer of capital, financing structure, fiduciary credit, banking system on massive scale, different consumption structure, different production structure, trade on a massive scale, currency volatility, central banking and Game of Thrones. Other than that, it's basically the same thing.

>lolowut and sze posting in this flamebait topic
>talking about contemporary social issues
>being wrong
>2014

Gentlemen youre looking so basic right now. Why dont you stick to what youre good at?

Haha. Dead piggy has had enough of this pseudo-political science.

Remember, the world is economically interconnected. Most things "produced" in China are so because current WTO rules and regulations determining which country gets credit for "production" are based on where final assembly takes place. So, a phone with over 200 parts from South Korea, Japan, European countries, Australia, Taiwan, etc. and whose IP could be from the US is "produced" in China because the other countries ship their parts to China to exploit the low costs of production (wages, land, environmental laws, etc.).

But just as China has been a magnet for FDI, as China develops more and wages continue to rise, Chinese will make more demands about ever higher wages, protecting the environment will become a greater priority, free land or subsidized land given from the great landowner (CCP) to the companies will become more scarce, Chinese IP theft and espionage will continue to become more advanced, and eventually the magnet will turn over and repel FDI. FDI seeks stable countries where production costs are relatively low, where labor is relatively manageable, and where transportation is relatively predictable and cost-effective. "The China Price" is rising. And as the costs of production increase, South Korean, Japanese, American, European, and others will send their FDI elsewhere: to Indonesia (developing fast), India (troubled, but an option for some sectors), Vietnam, etc.; Europeans will relocate back to eastern Europe; and America will relocate back to Mexico, the US, Latin America, Canada. None of this is new. People who can look past the hype and propaganda about China's inevitable rise have noticed these things for over ten years. I thought about writing a book about it when I was in Beijing between 2003-5. An interesting blog about Chinese financial markets: http://blog.mpettis.com

The WHO has stated that something like 3-8% of China's GDP is actually lost due to environmental and health problems, which are seen in hospital visits, corrupt doctors and under the table fees, lower life expectancy, less efficient work (for the sick/ill), etc.

China's export-driven growth model is dependent upon controlling its currency relative to the dollar. The effects of this are overblown by American politicians. But the very means China uses to control its currency is to purchase US Treasury Bonds! (And Japan has nearly as much T-Bonds as China, American citizens have more, and the Fed owns the most.) So, to say that China has America by the balls because it buys T-Bonds and America is therefore subservient ignores what is really happening: China is buys US T-Bonds to prop up its export-model! If China were to sell its US T-Bonds, the immediate effect would be the RMB's value would change relative to other currencies and China's exports would become more expensive and less competitive relative to similar products. China's exporters would suffer. Factories would close. Unemployment would rise. The Chinese Communist Party's entire system since Gaige Kaifang would be threatened by protests and riots. The Chinese put up with the CCP because the economy and military are strong. If the economy collapses, the CCP's leadership and legitimacy would be in jeopardy and the number of protests and riots would escalate (there are already over 100,000 riots/protests in China each year, mainly over land rights, environmental problems, unpaid wages, police brutality or corruption, etc.). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

And if China sells all its US T-Bonds, what would the effect be on the US? My prediction: America would continue to have normal monthly T-Bond sales and there would be more T-Bonds available to be purchased. Japan, Taiwan, other east Asian and SE Asian countries, and the rest of the world would gobble up as many bonds as they could (because if China suddenly sells, it would lead to fears or actual instability in Asia, and the natural response to avoid instability in financial markets is to hoard US T-Bonds!). American citizens would purchase more bonds. Maybe the government would even encourage it, as they did when fighting world wars or as Bush encouraged people to buy more things as a way to help the economy.

But, yeah, China and America are comparable and it is inevitable that China will overtake the US in your little game of bean counting.

Edited 6/19/2014 01:10:28

"counter-factual" hehe. Fact adjacent.

Another note to add : many Chinese cities have skyscrapers. Unfortunately, most will only stand for 2 decades.