Fish & chips, hamburgers and maple syrup

fries, crisps, gelato

When I first found out what nationalism is, I've been comparing it to racism and sexism and such.

A nationalist would say "I'm from this country and you're not, therefore I'm better then you"
A racist would say "I'm part of this racial group and you're not, therefore I'm better then you"

See the similarity?

@goodgame I disagree. Only since 2015/16 has nationalism become a bad word. Take a look at what Civilization 4's civilopedia had to say on the "Nationalism" technology (Civ 4 came out in 2005):
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Nationalism_(Civ4)
"Nationalism is the belief that the affairs of the nation are the primary concern of its citizens. A recent political phenomenon (the first major application taking place after the French Revolution), it has nonetheless become the overriding paradigm for modern world politics. It is important to know that nationalism can come in a variety of forms, some permutations bearing little resemblance to each other. Many early nationalistic leaders preached the superiority of their country over all others. While this type isn't extinct today (as evidenced by the ethnocentric nationalism in the former Yugoslavia), most promote national determinism. Sanctioned by the United Nations, this is the belief that each nation should be responsible for its own growth and independence."
Edit: My point for using a quote from a game is to show what the average person thought about nationalism, not some political group's thoughts or propaganda.

Edited 2/11/2020 17:22:23

Differences in my perspective:
Britain: A nice cup of tea with miwk!
Canada: Overly nice people
USA: It's a world in itself

America is the best and if u don’t agree Donald trump will grab you by the pussy like he said




MURICAAAAA

America is equal with any other country just like people are equal

Then why are you still in your country if it's not better or you don't like it more than any other country?

You don't choose what nation you're born into, just like you don't choose what family you're born into. It is natural to love your family. Your nation is literally your extended family. Saying you don't love your nation more than any random foreign nation is like saying you don't love your family more than a random stranger. That is sick and bizarre.




There is an important difference between country and nation. A Nation is the People.


"Country" may refer to a geographic area or a political state/government, but the definition of a "Nation" is a PEOPLE who share a culture, language, and lineage.

That's why we still call the American Indian tribes like the Cherokee "Nations" even though they are stateless nations. "Nations," in its correct usage, is synonymous with "peoples."


Only a few western countries like Poland or Finland can still be considered true nation-states for which "country of Poland" would be basically synonymous with "Polish Nation." Japan, Korea, and Israel are great examples of real nation-states outside the west. In these countries, national identity is strong because it is still built on all 3 pillars of a nation: language, culture, and common descent.

"Korean" and "Japanese" nationality are still tied to and defined partly by ethnicity. A white or black person born in Japan will never be considered "Japanese." The ethnic Japanese people have an ethnic Japanese Government. The Japanese are not a stateless nation.

The ethnic Jewish people of Israel have an ethnically Jewish government and a state that enforces immigration laws designed to maintain an ethnically Jewish majority population. The Jews are not a stateless nation.

However, most western countries are now controlled by a hostile group of elites that is foreign to and despises the founding people / nation of those countries.

They have flooded western countries with so many foreigners that many western "countries" like France or the UK or the United States are no longer considered real "nations." They are only economic zones, geographic areas containing multiple nations and in which the host or founding nation is subjected to anti-natal policies and propaganda to suppress their birthrates.

In the UK, the English people / nation are now a minority in their own major cities. Whites in many parts of America are now a minority in all age groups that is systemically discriminated against by affirmative action. Any nonwhite who gets across the border is automatically given preference by law at the cost of "heritage Americans" in job placements and schools. America is not a real nation-state anymore.

In America the whites who founded and built the country for their posterity are now a minority under the age of 18. No one ever voted for massive floods of foreigners. No nation ever would vote to make themselves a minority in their own country and a stateless people. It was done to them like it is being done in every western country by the same jewish ruling class of the west that hates white nations.

Article II (c) of the UN definition of genocide includes the importation of large numbers of foreigners against the will of the native/founding nation. They apply this to cases like Tibet where the Chinese government flooded Tibet with ethnic Han Chinese, but when white countries are flooded with so many foreigners that we are made into a 2nd class minority in our own countries that's just part of the "plan" of the jewish elites.


The American nation and the French nation still exist, but they are now stateless peoples. It is possible to love the American nation and hate the globalist / internationalist foreign group that controls our puppet government and has reduced us to an oppressed minority in the country our ancestors created.

Edited 2/21/2020 06:50:12

Only a few western countries like Poland or Finland can still be considered true nation-states

@Twisted 'preciate the support for Aussie English, mate!
@OxtheAutist, program and programme are very different words.

Also, not sure why we should take an opinion on nationalism from someone named General R.E. Lee... 😉

@General Lee Big brain time.

My post was mostly clarifying definitions of "nation" vs "country." Definitions are determined by historical usage and dictionaries, not my opinion.



Robert E Lee was a great example of a nationalist who knew that his nation was the people of his homeland Virginia. He was loyal to his nation and not a political entity or government. Everyone recognized this was a noble choice, even Lincoln. Even after the war the Northerners worshipped Lee as a moral hero and the NYT published headlines begging him to run for president.

Edited 2/21/2020 06:39:29

@goodgame I disagree. Only since 2015/16 has nationalism become a bad word. Take a look at what Civilization 4's civilopedia had to say on the "Nationalism" technology (Civ 4 came out in 2005):

Well, nationalism has been bad since WW2. Something around that time in world politics showed the danger of the kind of mindset that nationalism supports.

Civ 3 said this btw (Civ 4 is pretty much identical)

Nationalism is the belief that the affairs of the nation are the primary concern of its citizens. A recent political phenomenon (the first major application taking place after the French Revolution), it has nonetheless become the overriding paradigm for modern world politics. It’s important to know that nationalism can come in a variety of forms, some permutations bearing little resemblance to each other. Many early nationalistic leaders preached the superiority of their country over all others. While this type isn’t extinct today (as evidenced by the ethnocentric nationalism in the former Yugoslavia), most promote national determinism. Sanctioned by the United Nations, this is the belief that each nation should be responsible for its own growth and independence.

Civ 5

Nationalism is the policy that emphasizes the importance and uniqueness of the state. The state is the mother and father of the people, and the people love the state. Everybody has the national flag flying from their home, and everybody attends the founding day parade of military personnel and cool hardware. Nationalist states are often quite powerful, as the people work tirelessly for the state's advancement. However, internal criticism of the state may be stifled, which can limit the state's ability to correct itself if it goes off course.

Civ 6 - https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Nationalism_(Civ6) (Link as the entry is big)

Has this quote on top:

"It is nationalism which engenders nations, and not the other way around."
–Ernest Gellner

Thanks for a good source pointing out why Nationalism can and often is bad Lee :)

It's alright, Lee, I was joking. Hence the 😉 face. I don't know enough about specific individuals in the American Civil War to have grounds to make a serious statement about that sort of thing. Sorry if I triggered anyone. 😉

https://www.hofstede-insights.com/product/compare-countries/



Also interesting:
https://globeproject.com/study_2004_2007#data


@Lee: The USA are a prime example for immigration as a success story. Apart from that I dont see how answers the question.

Robert E Lee was a great example of a nationalist

@TBest That was fascism... all fascists are nationalist, not all nationalists are fascists. A government should have the interests of its own nation as its primary concern. We've gone too far the other way... (e.g. Justin Trudeau)

the difference? money... UK sells Oxford dictionary, Canada sells maple syrup, America sells dreams

@TBest Well, nationalism has been bad since WW2. Something around that time in world politics showed the danger of the kind of mindset that nationalism supports. ,

lol What are you talking about?

Are you saying Nationalism is bad for everyone? Or that only white people are not allowed to have nationalism and self-determination?

Are you going to condemn Israel for having an immigration policy designed to maintain an ethnic jewish majority?

Are you going to tell Japan they have to import millions of arabs, indians, africans, and mexicans to the point that ethnic Japanese people become a minority in Japan bc WW2 showed us that Japanese nationalism is bad?


You're totally fine with ethnic Koreans having their own country (Korean Nationalism), ethnic Jews having their own country (Jewish Nationalism), Pakistanis having their own country (Pakistani nationalism), black Gambians having their own country (Gambian Nationalism), but you want to dispossess white nations from the countries they built and founded?


Do you really believe every nation should have the right to self determination except white peoples?


Is your "anti -nationalism" really just an expression of anti-white prejudice?

Edited 2/21/2020 20:15:05