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Fascism is on the rise: 6/15/2019 22:54:25


Zoe
Level 39
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With the recent elections in India and the EU both resulting in large gains for Fascist parties, what do the very large brained Warzone players think of all this?

Here's a good analysis/documentary on the recent surge of Fascist ideology in India: https://youtu.be/txRxiXfboPU
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 02:52:23


RainB00ts
Level 43
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Fascism is a largely obsolete form of politics and economics from the 30's. If you read any of the Fascist intellectuals (we're not talking about Antifa forum "fascism" or /leftypol/ fascism) you would understand that Fascism is basically the industrial self-governance of nations. The ideology was an attempt to achieve political balance and therefore national unity through theoretically equal representation of the industrial class, the managerial class, and the entire consumer base (i.e. the nation-state).

The economic conditions that precipitated Fascism don't exist anymore. Every so often (who are we kidding - all the fucking time) the term is dusted off and rolled out against anyone on the political right and a few on the political left by Marxists, liberals, and neocons who may or may not understand that their use of the term is merely rhetoric.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 02:59:36


goodgame
Level 56
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Sort of like the words "cool" and "uncool" and "nerd" and "geek". Cool and uncool don't really have solid definitions, nerd is actually a compliment because it means really smart (similar to genius), and geek just means really in to something (like some people are history geeks).
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 03:13:17


Zoe
Level 39
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The Fascists of the 20th century weren't really defeated. The tippy-top of Nazi Germany's leadership and the most barbaric butchers were tried at Nuremberg, the SS officers, judges, and concentration camp guards were either completely let go or were given maybe a year or so in jail in West Germany. Some even went on to become leaders in NATO. In Italy it was even worse, where some former NFP members went on to commit numerous atrocities and bombings across Italy while on the CIA bankroll (Google Operation Gladio) after, like in West Germany, spending maybe a year or so in jail, if that.

My point is, Fascism is not an isolated incident of early-1900s Europe. It's a political force that never died, it has continued to grow and is incredibly strong, as evidenced by the recent elections in the EU and India. I don't care about your incredibly niche definition of Fascism lol.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 04:06:47


Cipollino
Level 58
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If we are not careful, such a terrible ideology will return... See my newest game to see my predictions on the dark state of the future in a nightmare scenario! Fascism vs Communism vs Democracy vs Conservatism! HOI4 in 2050!

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=18779410&From=MPDashboard
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 05:53:07


Knights Templar
Level 20
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Unless I see a swastika and "heil Hitler", you're just using jingoistic propaganda lingo to impose you're political agenda.
libtard, leave it to the people who actually use pragmatism and not irrationalism.

Why use fact when you can use your feelings?
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 19:52:11


Zoe
Level 39
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Ahahahhaah, so nobody can be a Fascist unless they literally have a swastika on their arm? You realize there's other iterations of Fascism right? There are different symbols and variations other than the only one who know anything about lol.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 19:55:52


Zoe
Level 39
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Also, you should know I'm a Communist, not a Liberal lol. I hate Liberals just as much as Conservatives. Please don't tell me you think Liberals and Communists are the same thing.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 20:01:33


goodgame
Level 56
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Communism and Fascism are not that different, actually. In both cases there is a centralized government that has control of the nation's economy. Of course there are differences, I'm just saying they're similar.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 21:59:38


Zoe
Level 39
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I mean, Communism doesn't even have a state lol. You're confusing Socialism with Communism. And even then, they're incredibly different.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/16/2019 22:06:40


goodgame
Level 56
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What do you mean by state?
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 00:42:21


Empire of Kilos
Level 36
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He's talking about how in some ideal version of communism that'll never happen, the state will dissolve and everybody will life by their own needs, or something.

Spoiler, it won't.

To my knowledge(Which I fully admit is not the most extensive), most attempts at communism start off with the bold revolutionary. Then he dies, at some point after, the tyrant takes over, and they either turn the thing into a proto-fascist system, or also die, which leads reformers to attempt to fix the situation, and fail, and by either political, populist, or economic pressure, are forced to change the system.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 01:05:04


sound_of_silence
Level 56
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eu elections isn't that important and as far as i am aware of the far left has also gain substantial seats, so it's more like that there are more radical voters than conservative voters.

as for india, there is always room for fascism to grow in a country that consider itself to be suppressed by colonial overlords and deeply religious, and the ideology itself has not been kept in check as much as in europe and the us.
but india is also a country with loads of regional differences, people in the deep south literally care nothing about modi, and only vote for him because regional parties tell them to vote / had form an alliance with the bjp, so i would say the surge on fascist is only happening on the provinces that speak hindi.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 01:33:58


Checkmqte
Level 61
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@Zoe, are you a K debater?

Edited 6/17/2019 01:38:09
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 03:36:09


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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BJP is right-wing nationalist and centralist (although India has always been more centralist than its federal Western counterparts), but it's a stretch to call them fascist or even authoritarian. Moreover, the sentiment in India isn't so much pro-fascism as anti-status quo (status quo = Rahul Gandhi's Congress) populism with a desire to see growth and development.

Plus applying the label "fascism" to the Global South can get tricky because fascism has some distinctly eurocentric ways of reasoning about cultures, nations, and societies. Those models can't be easily matched to the realities of non-Western societies, just like how the Western application of race, national identity, and religion hasn't been all that accurate in those cultures. I'd argue that lumping India (and Brazil and the Philippines, etc.) into this global overarching narrative is borderline colonialist in its mindset.

@Checkmqte: If Zoe's a K debater, they're definitely not nat circuit... I'm pretty sure Zoe just watches a ton of BreadTube or something.

Edited 6/17/2019 03:37:15
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 03:43:51


goodgame
Level 56
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Don't cancel out the possibility that some people only heard one side of an argument.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 03:55:15


l4v.r0v 
Level 59
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In India? They have more parties (especially regional parties) than anyone can keep track of. Plus the shift from Congress (dominant party 1947-2014, now barely keeping up nationally) to BJP (dominant party today) necessarily implies that people are broadly familiar with at least two major options.

But with a country of like 1.3 billion people, they're almost certainly not making the same choice(s) for the same reasons (as sos pointed out), so it's unwarranted to paint over it all with a broad brush and call it support for fascism. Right-wing nationalism, sure, people have to at least tolerate that to vote for RSS/BJP, but fascism? Just no. They're still working within the framework of liberal democracy and not proposing to change it.

In fact, it's frankly kind of hard to conceive of India operating under some non-democratic framework [in the long run]. The shared republic is like at least half of what even makes India India.

Edited 6/17/2019 03:55:24
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 03:59:32


goodgame
Level 56
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To think that India has over 1 000 000 000, and Canada has less then 40 000 000.
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 05:11:42


sound_of_silence
Level 56
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@knyte: well it looks like i did apply a eurocentric thinking towards fascism in the east huh (juq's west intensifies), also india is a really decentralized country, and bjp is a very large party as well, modi has his charisma but his power probably doesn't fit the required amount to be a fascist government.

Edited 6/17/2019 05:11:55
Fascism is on the rise: 6/17/2019 05:19:27

Japanball
Level 56
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Most political systems are bad, but communism... Do you want us all to die?
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