I think Fizzer should probably have warned him, but otherwise I completely agree with Lolowut.

I dont need or expect a public apology. I wrote an email to him the moment I noticed what happened. I gave him a day to reply. He didn't. So I made this thread to have a public discussion.

It is worth discussing. I had never before seen Fizzer influence who wins a tournament or get 1st on a ladder. This is uncharted territory.

And he did it without realizing (a) I had my games won on picks and (b) I legitimately need to use vacations until early April.

From a completely neutral point of view, I think voodoo is in the right here actually. Although gaming the system and stalling should be discouraged, it isn't against the rules. From what I read, It seems that fizzed actually abused his admin powers and booted him. The problem is that, there are other people that game the system like this, but the people that suffer from these people don't get their games won like this too, so what fizzer did meant it gave himelf an unfair advantage in the ladders.

This is of course, if fizzer actually did abuse his powers or it was some sort of bug or glitch.

Edited 3/14/2014 16:46:52

Lolowut, I was not going to be able to finish the games. Your option (deploy full and make one move) is essentially the same as what I did. You say I gave a middle finger to the ladder. Your option is to give a middle finger to the ladder under the table. Same strategty, probably the same effect. The only difference: Your strategy tries to make it seem better. It is the same thing. I am not going to hide what I am doing. Let the world see it.

My picks and locations were so good that I deserved to win on a tiebreaker (after 1-3 turns) more than I deserved to lose on a coin flip (after 3-5 turns). I am not able to play 12 games at the moment.

Fizzer advised me to "be sure to use the reinforcement card." What if I played to turn 5 in games I had worse picks and worse positioning; then, I played the reinforcement card, conserved my armies, and went on my vacation? When the season ends, I win because the enemy didn't play his card. Is playing 5-6 turns and winning in a game I should lose better than what I ried to do? Winning on picks and losing by Fizzer is certainly not the best result.

My position is: tiebreakers should determine who deserves to win. My picks are superior to theirs. Would they deserve to win on turn 5 or 6 because their attack luck is better than mine? Either way, I needed a vacation to focus on work and family.

Anyway, back to being busy. Maybe I will be able to respond during bathroom breaks or while walking from one place to another.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:16:59

No I said expand like you were going to play. Not make 1 move.

Ok. Sorry. I misread your ideas.

So if your chances of winning based on picks is 70-100%, you would decide to expand with at least two armies and then take your vacation? You think it is fairer that a coin flip determines the winner after you clearly won the picking stage on a template that is so heavily dependent on picking?

You are a kind person. I am not so kind. I think effort should be rewarded. I worked on making those picks. I earned my advantages. Picks determine more games on that template than play. And when two players are nearly equally matched in skill, picks usually determine the outcome. Trust me, I would have won all four of my games if I didnt need a vacation.

Letting attack luck determine the outcome means I should not have made any attempt at trying to win the picking stage. Instead of making good picks, I could have simply made one pick, be happy with what I got, expand a little, take my vacation, cross my fingers that I win.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:11:39

What effort? You could've just as easily lost the game as you thought you won them on picks. I don't care what you think your percentages of winning were, and I don't care if you feel like a coinflip victory would've been unfair to you. You just should've tried to win the game without trying to take some cheap victory with the algorithm. Who knows, maybe you'd have some time cleared during the last day of the season and could've played some of them realtime. TWM and Bastard usually play realtime if you catch them. The problem is apparent probability doesn't matter. What if your mythical 30% chance to lose happened? Are you saying that your opponent doesn't deserve to even play the game out for their apparent 30% chance of winning? Because that's what you did. You took away ANY chances for them to win by abusing an algorithm. All that because you THOUGHT you had a 70-100% chance of victory. I think that's stuck-up bullshit. Just play the damn game. It's a game that you're apparently taking your wins on way too seriously.

And yes, I am kind. When my opponents get booted in 2v2 ladder, I like to make replacement games to determine the real outcome almost everytime, regardless of whether future opponents will do the same with me. It's because I enjoy PLAYING the game. Winning is fun, but if I earn a victory without actually seeing things to the very end I don't feel as joyed as when I earn a victory from start to finish. So if your perspective of the game is that winning is the only fun point, then sure. Game the system. Use your knowledge of the algorithms to secure yourself your 100% win. It's all petty in the end. However, I don't want to hear you complaining when the creator of the site catches you with your pants down and stops your wins before they drastically affect everyone else.

You were gaming the system. That much is obvious. Fizzer had no right to assume who will win a game, but neither do you. You do not *deserve* to win. You either win or you lose. You stalled the games, you didn't play. It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

You have no right to arrogantly assume you would of won, so playing the match isn't even important.

A better solution: reveal your picks, see if your opponent agrees. They shouldn't be punished for your busy schedule.

And yes, I am kind.

Definition of kind...
Showing sympathy or understanding;

Are you kind, lolo? I think not. Sportsman-like, maybe.

--

I'm surprised at the hate voodoo is getting. Like I said above, stalling or gaming the system is NOT cheating. However, fizzer booting voodoo while he's on vacation gave fizzer an unfair advantage, which IS cheating. Although I'm extremely grateful to fizzer about the time he's spent on this game, I'm more concerned about the abuse of powers rather than unsportsmanlike behavior.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:25:22

I don't think he's abusing his powers, it was a clear case of abusing the mechanic. I am sure Fizzer would of done it even if his own game was not involved.. And in fact he did.

I think you can reach a certain skill level to know your chances of winning at any given time, especially when the information available is quite good.

If you don't think this is possible, perhaps the fog of war is thicker for you.

Fizzer has the right to do what he sees fit. But does that make his actions right?

The CIA and FBI violate our privacy, the CIA hacks Senate computers, and the CIA kills, tortures, and steals in the name of what is best for all Americans. Does that make their actions right?

Or does the end justify the means? Fizzer is justified if he violates legitimate vacations and picks winners in games, tournaments, or seasons?

How is Fizzer's actions different from mine? I think I won on picks. I decided I should win. Fizzer thought my picks dont matter and my vacation is not real. He decided I should lose. I think Widz is wise when he says neither is good. But what else is there to do? Hope for a coin flip when you have them outpicked and outpositioned? Two of my enemies picked bonuses with wastelands! I had them all countered and had better growth options! Trust me, I would have won those games if we played them out.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:36:14

More about Fizzer's actions:

The only reason he booted me was because I was playing two guys who had a chance at first and I had a chance at first.

If my opponents didnt matter and if I didnt matter, Fizzer would have allowed me to win.

Why? Because I did not break any rules. I won on picks. I protected my advantage. I went on vacation.

If I am ahead on armies mid game and protect my advantage and win, is that any different?

I dont think the number of turns matters. What matters is who is most likely to win at any given moment. If that likelihood is relatively high and the person protects his advantage and wins, that is strategy. If the likelihood is low or even and he wins on a tiebreaker, that is cheap.

I have had enemies surrender on turn 1 after they had better starts than RB, TWM and Zibik's. I truly believe that at least one of them would have surrendered if they had full knowledge of my starts and what I knew about their starts, play styles, and probable locations.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:46:06

Voodoo What you did is bad and you should feel bad! You deserved to be booted! Fizzer did the right thing! I'm about damn tired of stalling on the ladders, and you deserved to be banned

Your busy schedule affects your game time. Take it like a man instead of whining that you should of won and thus abusing the system is justified.

Life sometimes gets in the way of warlight :/

And a note, Fizzer isn't picking winners, just deciding you shouldn't of won that way.

If he allows you to do it, anyone could do it. That is clearly wrong.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:48:27

TWM, in that case I will report you.

You said in our public chat that you want to hunt me down and rape me. You said you will find my IP address to locate me and then rape me.

I have never before been threatened in a game like that. I dont know much abkut computers. But I believe it is possible for you to find me. And now you are speaking a bit aggressively again.

With such talk, you certainly dont deserve anything you accomplish.

TWM what's your problem? So you just butt into an argument with a biased opinion and tell voodoo off without even bothering with an argument? Why not just chant 'hail fizzer' instead? Takes less time and we can see less of your idiocy.

@Vile, the problem is that are many other people like voodoo that game the system and yet the people that suffer for, this don't always get their games finished like this, so what fizzer did was unfair.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:51:08

Well you should be banned for multi accounting on the ladder! hahahahah!

@Pulsey I could argue but I'm at school and don't feel like typing a big argument, but nice to see you kissing Voodoos butt

Edited 3/14/2014 17:53:33

I don't see how Fizzer is abusing his powers if since the dawn of time all Terms of Services that you've agreed to pretty much say that the creator of the site can do as he deems necessary in any situation so long as he doesn't break whatever contract he made when you purchased your blue M.

Not every abuser can be found, that doesn't mean those that are shouldn't be dealt with, especially when it's such an extreme and blatant case such as this.

Thats a ridiculous argument, lolowut. So if I manage a football league I'm allowed to rig it?

If what voodoo said is true, than it cerainly is unfair. Even if it doesn't violate any laws or anything. It gave someone an unfair advantage in a fair tournament,t and for that I think it's much more unsportsmanlike than gaming the system or delaying your games, not to mention that action shouldn't even have been taken in the first place since they don't even violate the rules of warlight.

How could all this have been prevented? Simple. Announce the implementation of new rules regarding ladder etiquette. Then people know what to expect and can't complain.

That's all I have to say for now, good night.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:04:54