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New ladder player with question about ratings: 11/27/2017 21:35:46

FiveStarGeneral
Level 54
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Hi guys,
I am a new player doing his provisional matches in the 1v1 ladder. I just beat a player who was 1649 but my rating only went up 4 points from 1560 to 1564. I don't really understand how this is possible when I was previously gaining around 50 points after every victory vs people with ratings lower than mine at the time and was wondering if anyone might know.
Thanks!
New ladder player with question about ratings: 11/27/2017 21:46:25


master of desaster 
Level 65
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It either didn't update the ratings yet or an old win expired (which didn't happen). It might also be that an old opponent had a huge rating drop so he reduces your rating the same amount as a win benefits you.
New ladder player with question about ratings: 11/27/2017 21:48:57


knyte 
Level 58
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The 1v1 ladder uses Bayeselo (https://www.remi-coulom.fr/Bayesian-Elo/), which recalculates everyone's rating periodically based on the entire (unexpired) history of the ladder. The game you just won is yet another datapoint in that system, instead of something that directly gives/takes away points. Assuming the update has already happened (sometimes the ladder stops working), 1564 is just what that system as a whole now thinks is most consistent with your results.

There's also a hidden uncertainty parameter/standard deviation that Warlight doesn't show, and that probably got impacted a little. So in the long run you might get a lot more than just +4 points out of that latest win.

Edited 11/27/2017 21:49:50
New ladder player with question about ratings: 11/27/2017 22:18:55


Lightning McQueen
Level 55
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In this case, the rating might not have updated; usually it updates every 2(or around that time) hours.
But in general, it is like Knyte said- the ratings recalculates ratings for all players participating and the ratings of your opponents influence yours too, which makes ratings to change without completing games too.

Generally if you beat a player whose rating is far higher than yours, it will increase more (you can check ladder ratings yourself too)using ladder log file and rating calculator.
https://www.warzone.com/wiki/Ladder_Ranks_and_Ratings
New ladder player with question about ratings: 11/27/2017 22:59:48

TBest 
Level 60
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PS. this is the link for raw data http://data.warlight.net/Data/BayeseloLog0.txt ,

the wiki is updated, but not the data site :) {yet}
New ladder player with question about ratings: 11/27/2017 23:43:02


knyte 
Level 58
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Looks like the ladder update came in. Your 1560-1564 leap was probably just Bayeselo running again on old game data, and now you finally get the points from your win vs. pharos.
New ladder player with question about ratings: 11/28/2017 00:25:46

FiveStarGeneral
Level 54
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Really appreciate all the help guys it really clarifies things. Like you guys said, I probably just had to wait for the system to update. One of the players I lost to previously had a big rating drop (1600ish to 1300ish) after losing a game today which probably had a big effect on me.
Thanks!
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/2/2017 07:39:52

FiveStarGeneral
Level 54
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I noticed that most of the top players in the ladder only play in 2 games at once. Is this in order to have less games to focus on and to have less chance of dropping? Or is there perhaps something else? Also, the ranking system updates the ratings first and then matches us based on those new ratings right? I noticed this player https://www.warzone.com/LadderGames?ID=0&LadderTeamID=18852 because he just finished his provisionals like me and saw that the ratings of the opponents he faced were vastly different from mine. It took me forever before I was able to play against higher rated players whereas he was playing against them much earlier on. Does this have anything to do with playing only 2 games at once or is it just because I got rekt in my 2nd and 6th game x[
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/2/2017 08:16:05


Cowboy 
Level 57
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When you play two games at a time you typically get higher skilled opponents as you go until you start balancing out. It all comes down to which you are more comfortable whether you should do 2,3,4 or 5 (1 game unlocks at thirty unexpired). That being said playing two games at a time will probably give you a more accurate rating while 5 typically inflates your ratings until you finish games against better people down the road.

As far as your run and why your rating may seem low.

 Shinobi defeated FiveStarGeneral	14446147	11/20/2017 16:42:14	 Shinobi: 1364


Losing to a 1364 ELO is definitely enough to bring your score down for some time

 NZPhoenix (AHOL) defeated FiveStarGeneral	14444211	11/18/2017 15:55:52	 NZPhoenix (AHOL): 1156


This is probably where the real damage is though, as you kinda got unlucky. Phoenix (Boston as he is known to the community) is a 2000 ELO player in real skill but boots alot. He didn't boot in your game which hurt you a ton and that loss will drag you down until it expires (or boston goes on a run while having his boots expire which is unlikely).

Poor play (especially picks) hurt you early on, but looking at your other games you're improving and making better picks, which is a good sign for you towards the future.

Anyways, good luck, and hope to talk sometime!
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/2/2017 19:11:45

FiveStarGeneral
Level 54
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I'm just a little confused as to why playing 2 games vs 5 games at once would be more accurate if the game is matching us up after our new ratings are calculated. Is it perhaps because our ratings sometimes update more slowly than every 2 hours?

I definitely did play poorly vs shinobi. I have no idea why I picked the two territories in Africa rip haha. And yea phoenix definitely didn't feel like what I imagined for a 1100 player. I have noticed that there are some people who boot themselves for some reason. Is there any reason for doing this?
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/2/2017 19:15:13


knyte 
Level 58
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psst you should join 101st if Cowboy lets you in

2 games at a time = less likely to get weird opponents whose ratings are far away from you. If you need a 5th game, and the only remaining player has a rating of 749, well enjoy that game.
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/2/2017 19:20:35

TBest 
Level 60
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I'm just a little confused as to why playing 2 games vs 5 games at once would be more accurate if the game is matching us up after our new ratings are calculated. Is it perhaps because our ratings sometimes update more slowly than every 2 hours?


5 games at a time gives you
You have 0 rating
get game,1,2,3,4,5 based on zero rating.

2 games at a time gives you
0 rating,
get game 1,2.
1 game finishes and you have ~1000 rating
get game 3 etc.

If you are going for win streak, 5 games at a time is (theoretically) easier, since you will have lower rating when you get the games, relative to a 2 games at a time
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/2/2017 19:22:49


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 61
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I would actually suggest you apply to ONE!, even if its a bit of a reach. You seem like a friendly and improving player that could potentially be the type of person we are looking for. Contact Beren apex or malakkan if you are interested.

Edited 12/2/2017 19:24:09
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/3/2017 04:44:09


Cowboy 
Level 57
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psst you should join 101st if Cowboy lets you in


I'm pretty sure we were the first to contact him. ;)
New ladder player with question about ratings: 12/3/2017 05:51:30

FiveStarGeneral
Level 54
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2 games at a time = less likely to get weird opponents whose ratings are far away from you. If you need a 5th game, and the only remaining player has a rating of 749, well enjoy that game.


Oh I would've thought there'd be something to prevent you from getting matched with people outside a certain range of your own rating though.

Thanks Tbest, that does make a lot of sense.


Edited 12/3/2017 05:52:10
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