Is it justified?

I do not think abortion is justified.

Id like to hear from You.

high abortion rate is always a sign of decline

Bad, but I don't support restricting people's rights on it.

Abortion should only be legal in the situation that it endangers the mother's life. Aside from that, it should be 100% restricted. Don't want/can't have a baby? Just give it up for adoption, or at the very least leave it on the doorstep of a police department or something. No need to abort it.

There is already an adoption problem. Way too many children need adobtion.

And you or for gay adoption, right?

Overpopulation is a problem, but the answer isn't killing babies.

Who do we kill?

The overpopulation meme is hilarious. And the people who usually talk about overpopulation are quick to blame the West when in reality it's the third world that's having too many children. Yet they would be opposed to killing third worlders or restricting their rights to have large families.

If you force other people to abide by your own metaphysical/religious beliefs, the terrorists win.

the world is fucking retarded now we have men being women and they're using the excuse of expressing themselves
and no dont kill a fucking baby because they have no one to defend them, you dont want the baby? too fucking late you
werent wise and got pregnant put them up 4 adoption you stupid women

Pregnancy is punishment for sex.

The overpopulation meme is hilarious. And the people who usually talk about overpopulation are quick to blame the West when in reality it's the third world that's having too many children.

care to elaborate? i don't get this argument

^^^And they live a horrible life
^^Abstinence doesn't work

Edited 11/6/2017 18:44:12

The overpopulation meme is hilarious. And the people who usually talk about overpopulation are quick to blame the West when in reality it's the third world that's having too many children.

care to elaborate? i don't get this argument

I agree with Wulfhere, insofar as the West is not adding billions to the world population.

As to what is meant by "too many," should we talk of Malthus?

To speak in gross generalities, the West has stopped growing and the remainder of the world continues to grow.

The late Hans Rosling, who was a demographer, claimed that the world's population will peak at something like 10 billion persons. There are those who claimed that the man had an overly optimistic view of the future. His view was that a future, where the whole world is lifted out of poverty and was able to enjoy a decent life, was probable. My own view is that this is possible. Unfortunately other far darker futures are also achievable. As the saying goes, the road to hell is broad and easy.

Hans Rosling, Population Growth and Climate Change:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=SxbprYyjyyU

The Hans Rosling link is a quick 3 minute 18 second talk.

I don't think most people who choose to abort do so because of overpopulation, but one less baby in the US isn't all that different from one less baby in India or Nigeria if you're concerned primarily with global overpopulation and planetary carrying capacity. Iceland isn't particularly responsible for anthropogenic climate chance but that doesn't make burning a ton of coal there any less impactful than burning a ton of coal in the US or China w.r.t. the total amount of pollutants released into the Earth's atmosphere.

I think one issue y'all might be skipping over is the difference between forcing people not to have babies and letting people choose. People can be in favor of allowing women to terminate pregnancies in the US without also supporting a one-child policy in developing countries. Wulfhere might not be a fan of choice or individual rights, but those do factor heavily into a lot of people's ethical logic. (I'd like to sidestep the argument about the choice of a fetus to live or to die, since I'm only chiming in to cover that one specific overpopulation point y'all seem to be having a little bit of trouble working with).

It would have been better if the advocates of legal abortion had achieved their goals in the US by referendum rather than by the action of the supreme court. The very question has a baleful influence on politics in the United States.

Robert Malthus said:

That the increase of population is necessarily limited by the means of subsistence,
That population does invariably increase when the means of subsistence increase, and,
That the superior power of population is repressed by moral restraint, vice and misery.

Abortion is one of Malthus' vices. In the minds of his contemporaries contraception would also be one of those things which represses population growth and is a vice. Absent moral restraint I prefer contraception as the lesser vice.

If I could re-animate the dead Malthus I would ask him what policy was achievable.

Edited 11/6/2017 23:13:42

China tried enforcing lower birth rates by means of the coercive power of the state, and it worked.

"Then they found that their neighbor (Thailand) reduced birthrates faster without coercion. Thailand simply provided sex education, free or cheap voluntary contraception and the rest sorted itself out."

As a general rule, countries with high rates of female literacy have smaller families. The correlation is amazingly strong.

Edited 11/6/2017 23:27:59

I agree with Wulfhere, insofar as the West is not adding billions to the world population.

Do you agree with him beyond that, or are you just taking the liberty to state a fact for the fun of it?

Read between the lines of what he's saying.