they have failed to do that for the last 300 years, but now is the time were they will succeed i understand.

Under Spain they have access to EU deals and global trade.

That will change if secession happens.

yes your right, who would want to trade with the most industrialised part of spain also everyone knows that if your are below 10 million people, you can't be a member of the eu or trade in general

Edited 10/6/2017 23:32:05

you're*

The EU isn't going to recognize Catalonia for fear of angering Spain. In addition, they'd risk emboldening separatists in other EU nations. It doesn't matter how industrialized they are, global economy is a team game and by illegally breaking away Catalonia would be off the team.

Spain's non European allies would also refuse to recognize in all likelihood.

Catalonia will still be able to trade in some degree I'm sure. But they'll have to deal with tarrifs and regulations that they didn't have to as part of Spain.

Also, IIRC, can't any EU member veto a new entry?

Edited 10/6/2017 23:47:12

MUH SHEKELS

You all think think the insane dumfucks will make everyone suffer. Let us just hope it gets solved acceptable (aka more autonomy but no independence).

I'm not saying the Spanish government is right.

Merely pointing out why Catalan independence is likely to be a huge mistake.

You're going to ignore the outcome of the vote anyway, why go full ussr on the citizens?

Because Spain like all EU countries is controlled by corrupt demogogues with their corporate sponsors telling them to do this and that with no organic input from anyone.

Though I have to hand it to Macron; that man is articulate and knows much more about the Western tradition than one would expect of an EU politician. I think Macron is a crypto traditionalist. He knows about Hegel and has almost certainly read Spengler.

>destroying a more organic White Western country with a less organic one

The Spanish government is the globalist evil we talk about being a threat to all peoples.

I totally agree with the first part; sometimes I LARP as a Commie and sometimes I LARP as an Ancap. Playing the devil is quite fun especially when you twist the core premises of the ideology to different conclusions.

Your description of democracy is accurate; democracy requires a political philosophy to bind the people into no more than two large, stable voting blocs. This ideology is always plebian and degenerate in nature.

The European strategy right now should be to minimize chaos and social instability so its people can fight the looming existential war.

Edited 10/24/2017 01:11:42

Does Catalonia, if they get independence, want to join the EU?

I'm pretty sure I have aspergers

Well, the issue, it's much more complicated of what you probably think/know. I will try to explain it a bit as a catalan:
It's true that the Spanish government didn't act right (in fact, they just ignored the problem for the last years), and I won't defend it (in fact, I hate it), but that doesn't mean the Catalan government it's right, quite the opposite.
The Catalan government has been manipulating information for years, indoctrinating the population (and they achieved it in some degree), with messages like "if we are free we will have more money", that message was spread in the middle of the biggest economical crisis of the recent times, one that hit Spain especially hard, and a lot of people were desperate and climbed to that hope. It's not a cultural reason (at least for the majority of independentists).
This applies to children in schools (you should read some history books in Catalonia), not in all the region but in a big part of it. This is the main reason this movement grew in the last years, the youngs that start to vote after receiving this education.
For some years, if you live in Catalonia and say you are against independence, you risk yourself being attacked, threatened, insulted...that's why a lot of people it's afraid of expressing it. The government of Catalonia and independentist organizations are happy with the situation because if the ones against it are silent, their move seems bigger and with more support (right now they are, roughly, 40%, despite all the indoctrination they didn't achieved majority).
In fact, there was an students strike Wednesday and yesterday, against Spanish government, some supported it, some not. The ones who supported it attacked the other ones (Fun fact: They did this while claiming for democracy).

There are a lot of Catalans (probably the majority) that think that both goverments, Spanish and Catalan, are hopeless and breaking democracy, myself included, but in my opinion the Catalan one is worst (and some years ago I thought it was impossible to be worse than PP...).


P.S: Business is leaving Catalonia because they don't want to leave Spain and EU, and the political instability, not because Spanish government. In fact, a lot more want to do it, but they can't afford it for being small.

Edited 10/27/2017 14:42:29

The referendum is illegal. The police are justified.
Catalonian independence is treason against Spain.