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Move order is unfair.: 9/23/2017 20:54:13

TBest 
Level 60
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We all know the move order in WL goes ABBA -repeat. That is ABBAABBA - ABBAABBA Then next turn it goes BAAB -repeat. However that is quite unfair, instead it should be for turn 1.
ABBABAAB - BAABABBA

Then turn 2, we change who goes first first.
BAABABBA - ABBABAAB

Proof + explenation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prh72BLNjIk

(Just found this interesting to be honest, but pretty sure I prefer the current WL move order, as you can easily think out when your own order will happen in a given turn. I am curious through how it would be to play with the fairest sequence possible.)
Move order is unfair.: 9/23/2017 21:05:27


master of desaster 
Level 65
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I kinda agree that ABBABAAB isn't perfect, but on warlight it depends so much on the template wheter a cycle is fair or not. On standard games, having the very last pick is usually an advantage, cause you get full intel and normally a counter of which your opponent knows nothing.

On africa on the other hand, having the very last move is rather disadvantageous, cause it's usually just the weakest of all 14 best picks.

So depending on the template, player A should get first AND last pick, while on another template it's fairer to give A the first and B the last pick.
Move order is unfair.: 9/23/2017 23:15:05

Hasdrubal
Level 58
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In fact, in team games and in FFA games it is even worse:

In two team two player games, the same team always start (and have last move) and other team does middle moves.

In FFA games players with advantage are last and first one, as they have first or last move every turn.

There should be some transition in move order for each turn but it must follow the same logic for all games regardless if it is 1v1 or any other combination.

Edited 9/23/2017 23:15:37
Move order is unfair.: 9/23/2017 23:43:03

TBest 
Level 60
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For team games it is quite hard to find a completely 'fair' way of doing it.
https://www.warlight.net/blog/index.php/2014/03/website-update-2-4/
Covers quite in-depth as to way team and FFA move-order is the way it is today.

While the current move order 'technically' is unfair, it is practical, intuitive and fair enough that there really is no issue. Also, as mod pointed out, going 1st is not always good. Sometimes it is better to get last order.

Edited 9/23/2017 23:46:08
Move order is unfair.: 9/23/2017 23:43:49

DanWL 
Level 62
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You could use random move order instead of a cyclic one.
Edit: turns out that people can't detect sarcasm.

Edited 9/24/2017 09:30:03
Move order is unfair.: 9/24/2017 09:00:44


Timinator • apex 
Level 63
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How often do you have the situation that you need your 3rd+ order to happen earlier than your opponents 3rd+ order? I think that's farely rare. First and second move is rather often, after that good players usually begin using their delays, where the order of A and B doesn't really matter, until they run out of delays and then it counts who made more (and some rare cases where you make exactly the same amount of delays where move order comes in).

So ABBA - repeat may not be perfect, but for 99% of the games it is totally fine and more intuitive than your suggestion while having the exact same result.


@DanWL: You know nothing.
Move order is unfair.: 9/24/2017 09:19:33


Buns157 
Level 67
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+1 timi

Interesting thread though
Move order is unfair.: 9/24/2017 11:27:00


Rufus Shinra 
Level 58
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The video above indeed shows the fairest sequence, but in the warlight's case it is a bit different, because it has turns - multiple sequences. What it means is that in the case of repeating ABBA sequence A indeed has an advantage, but on the next turn sequence flips to BAAB and B has an advantage. So in terms of turns this game is fair to both opponents, except the picking turn where A has clear advantage.

Edited 9/24/2017 11:30:12
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